This is an old page. The current version can be found here. The current OSI List is here.
The Oyster system charges a price for each journey made. In the case of National Rail, Underground, Overground and DLR each journey is allowed to include more than one mode as long as the gap between sections is reasonable. Sometimes you can change between modes without touching out and in (eg between National Rail and DLR at Greenwich), but usually it is necessary. The system is programmed with a number of such interchanges. The time allowed varies dependant on the distance involved and the frequency of trains on the next leg. Thus an Underground to National Rail OSI will often allow more time than the opposite National Rail to Underground OSI, particularly if passengers usually wait on a concourse until their train is advertised.
Unfortunately this is one of the hidden caveats that TfL seem reluctant to publish. The reason given is that the list and timings are under constant review as circumstances change. The table has been removed as it is now out of date.
The Oyster Control Centre has the ability to set and remove emergency OSIs in real time according to locally made requests. These will typically cater for short term (un)planned station closures and some weekend engineering work. An EOSI will be set at a number of stations and will allow interchange between any of those stations within 30 minutes, including re-entering the same station. These EOSIs are not included in the table because of their extremely fluid nature.
Change introduced in May 2013 List
- OSI between Kings Cross St Pancras and St Pancras Intl NR increased to 30 minutes.
Changes introduced in October 2012 List
- New OSI between Ickenham and West Ruislip.
- New OSIs between gatelines at Richmond and Woodford.
- Deleted OSI between seperate parts of Wembley Central.
- OSI between Kings Cross St Pancras and Kings Cross NR increased to 40 minutes.
Changes introduced in January 2012 List
- New OSI between Aldgate LU and Tower Gateway DLR.
- New OSI between Edgware Road LU stations.
- New OSIs between gatelines at Farringdon and Oxford Circus.
Changes introduced in May 2011 List
- New OSI between Cannon Street NR and Bank LU.
- New OSI between Finsbury Park LU and NR.
- New OSI between Putney NR and East Putney LU.
Temporary OSI between Goodge Street, Leicester Square and Tottenham Court Road.
Change introduced in November 2010 List
- New OSI between Cannon Street NR and Mansion House LU.
Changes introduced in September 2010 List
- Addition of a new entrance to Canary Wharf Tube called E2.
- New OSI between different gatelines at Paddington LU.
Changes introduced in October 2010 ATOC List
These changes have been ignored because they were not borne out in the TfL list.
New OSIs between Bank and Cannon Street, Mansion House. OSI between Kings Cross/St Pancras and Kings Cross NR increased to 40 minutes. OSI between Mansion House/Temple and Blackfriars NR reduced to 20 minutes. OSIs between Paddington gatelines and P8/9 PVALs reduced to 20 minutes. OSI between Southwark and Waterloo East increased to 40 minutes. OSI between St Pancras NR and Kings Cross NR increased to 40 minutes. OSI between Waterloo East and Southwark increased to 20 minutes.
226 thoughts on “Out of Station Interchange (OSI)”
I have a copy of ATOCs current OSI list – do you want a copy?
Thank you Peter, that was very useful indeed. Unfortunately there are several anomalies between the May 2010 TfL list and this Oct 2010 ATOC list. In the main they involve some of the newer OSIs from May being left off (eg Dalstons and Shadwells on the ELL). A complete list of the changes appears below the table. I am awaiting a revised list via a FOI request to TfL (submitted before this ATOC version came to light) so there may be further clarification shortly.
Its baffling to me why to get these lists someone has to submit FoI requests…
The ATOC list has turned out to be a disaster and almost all changes have been reversed. Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience caused.
I have also tried to simplify some of the entries (especially Kings Cross St Pancras and Waterloo) where ‘duplicate’ entries have the same time allowed.
Will there be any changes considering TfL are advising people to avoid Victoria at rush hour?
As far as I know there aren’t any at the moment. The most recent FOI request was answered in late February with an update from last November. I’m not sure how relevant other interchanges might be bearing in mind that you have to walk (rather than take a bus) to make the interchange valid.
I travel on Southern trains from West Norwood to Deptford.
As my final destination is zone 2 ( Detpford ) I have no other way to travel than via London Bridge (Zone 1)
I do not leave the station I only wait for my next train to Detpford.
Do I have purchase zone 1 just to reach Deptford ??
Yes, you do, unfortunately. If you want to avoid zone 1 then you will need to get off at New Cross Gate and either walk (15-20 minutes) or take a bus.
This list is so useful – thank you!
Interesting anomaly resulting from use of the OSI in New Cross: my wife travelled from a Zone 6 Southern station to Lewisham, using this OSI en route, and was correctly charged £2.20 for the whole trip – i.e. no extra cost for the New Cross to Lewisham bit.
However, she then immediately touched in in Lewisham DLR station and out at the next stop, Elverson Road. Adding this short DLR trip to non-Zone-1-encompassing rail trips to Lewisham is always free, but in this case it DOUBLED her fare, to £4.40! It added £2.20 for a one-stop DLR trip that even on its own would only cost £1.30!
It appears that while the charging system takes account of the OSI for the rail trip to calculate the alternative fate avoiding Zone 1, it doesn’t then use that data, as it would with pink route-validator data, to work out the correct fare later too. Instead it charged her the fare as if she’d travelled via Zone 1.
She’s going to ring the Oyster helpline, but does anyone know if there’s anyone we could usefully contact to point out this flaw in the system so they can address it?
Ouch! I can see what they’ve done, and I agree that it needs changing. Unfortunately, a pink validator wouldn’t help either. The problem is that there is only one route to Elverson Road from, say, Caterham. However, the fact that there is an alternative route for Caterham to Lewisham suggests that they need to build that in to journeys to Elverson Road and possibly Deptford Bridge as well.
I suggest emailing the helpdesk and ask them to pass the query on to the fare setting department.
In the meantime, the only way to reduce the fare is to wait over 20 minutes at Lewisham between touching out of the NR station and touching in at the DLR station. This would end the rail journey and start a new one zone DLR journey which would cost £1.30 as you say. It’s not ideal. If you had a travelcard on your Oyster then you could touch in on a bus and get back off again to at least avoid the need to wait around.
Thanks Mike – we’ll give that a try! I’m hoping the helpline will look sympathetically on her case when she rings in a few days and refund the £2.20 too.
Good Luck. Please let me know how you get on.
when changing at Walthamstow Central from the National Rail service to the Victoria Line should you touch out on the National Rail platform before touching in on the underground or can you ignore the national rail reader?
I’m not aware of special arrangements here so my advice would be to touch out and in properly. It is possible that the gates in will let you in if you are still in the system (as they’ve done with NR at Finsbury Park) but I don’t know. The worst that can happen will be an unfinished journey which the helpdesk will probably refund if you explain what happened. Let me know if you try it.
Just to update you on the fare problem I described a couple of weeks ago: my wife spent ages on the phone to the Oyster helpline patiently explaining the problem, until the person there finally understood and refunded the £2.20.
Meanwhile, I’ve just had the following response to my e-mailed complaint to TfL:
” I have informed the relevant department in regards to the amount charged to your Oyster card for your journey between Coulsdon South and Elverson Road DLR (avoiding zone 1). These charges will be amended at the next possible opportunity, which will now be on 2 January 2012.”
Shame it has to wait that long, but glad to hear they’re fixing it!
Just a thought as to the position now the Statford International branch of the DLR is open.
What is the position on interchanging at Stratford, West Ham and Canning Town, I presume you touch out / in on the DLR reader and then again touch out at the end of your journey.
Also should not Woolwich Arsenal be an OSI in the same way as Lewisham and Limehouse for example.
All those stations are single entities so there is no need to touch out and in again. Whereas at Lewisham the DLR station is separate to the NR station so you do need to touch out and in again.
Does anyone have any idea how someone goes about suggesting an OSI.
The one I would like to suggest would be Ickenham and West Ruislip where bus and rail links are few across the North of the borough of Hillingdon.
Initially I would write or email to the helpdesk and ask for the suggestion to be passed to the relevant people. Having looked at the map I do wonder how many people would actually use it though. It seems to be a little further apart than most OSIs, usually no more than a third of a mile, and West Ruislip is the last Oyster station on it’s line with only two more stops further out than Ickenham.
I understand that you use FOI request to TfL to get a list of current Out of Station Interchanges (OSIs).
How do you get Emergency OSIs as at Tottenham Court Road (TCR)?
There seems to be a same NLC Emergency OSI at TCR. I don’t know how long it is. This reformats an extract from an online statement:
Date Time Location Action Fare
16/09/11 09:05 Bethnal Green [LU] Exit £4.60
08:31 Tottenham Court Road Entry -£4.60
08:26 Tottenham Court Road Exit £4.60
08:00 Bank Entry -£6.50
By analogy with
Bank LU Bank LU 15
I would expect to see
Tottenham Court Road LU Tottenham Court Road LU ?
I am not sure that “Note 1: Bank LU OSI between Central/Northern/DLR and Waterloo&City gatelines.” tells the full story. I think there is only one logical gateline at Bank, unlike King’s Cross St Pancras where there are 3 and OSI is between any pair.
Thanks for publishing the data.
My favourite “missing” OSI is Warren Street – Euston Square. 😉
I was tipped off that there was an OSI covering the Northern Line closure at Tottenham Court Road and asked about it as a follow up to my last FOI request. The way they do these means that there is effectively a blanket OSI between the three stations, including exiting and entering again, I guess in case you change your mind (perhaps if it’s heavy rain outside). I didn’t include that as it’s not really an interchange as such.
I’m not very familiar with the layout at Bank but I’m sure that an early list described there being two gatelines. I’ll have to have a look around next time I’m in the area. And I agree about Warren Street to Euston Square, that would make sense in some directions.
Hi, I have just moved to London so this is proving to be a very useful site, thank you!
I have a query regarding different modes of transport however, I will be travelling from Covent Garden (tube) to Bromley South (National rail) then bus which would in total take about an hour so is within the travel time. Would that all be counted as one journey still or would the bus be charged as extra? I understand the buses run slightly differently in that you dont touch out afterwards so not sure if that would be included?
Buses are charged separately, unfortunately. However, I might be able to save you a bit depending on exactly where you need to get to. First off, mixing National Rail and the tube in zone 1 attracts an extra charge. If you are close enough to Charing Cross to walk then you could save that bit. From Charing Cross you can get trains to Grove Park where there is a shuttle to Bromley North. The journey will take a little longer than the non-stop trains from Victoria, but Bromley North is in zone 4 whereas Bromley South is in zone 5. Many of the buses in Bromley serve both stations so you may not be inconvenienced by using the other station.
Hope that helps.
That does help, thanks Mike!
How much is it from Liverpool Street to Bank when using your Oyster Card?
According to http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/faresandtickets/farefinder/current/ it is £1.90 all day.
I want to travel from Clock House to Stratford. Single Fare says £1.70 off peak.
To get this should I touch in at Clock House but not touch out until getting to Stratford on DLR?
You will probably need to touch out at Lewisham NR, but just touch in at the DLR station within 20 minutes and the two journeys will be combined.
Hi. It seems illogical that Euston Square (LU) & Warren Street (LU) are not an OSI. Regards.
You’re not alone in that view.
Do OSIs only apply between DIFFERENT gatelines at OSI stations? I recently passed through Paddington, changing from the H&C (Tube) to Heathrow Connect (NR) and onward to Hayes & Harlington (a valid Oyster journey). I exited a very new-looking barrier before realising that Heathrow Connect is on the same level as the H&C, so I had to re-enter the same barrier. I was charged for two separate journeys. (I was later “capped” and so I didn’t lose out on this occasion – otherwise I’d have complained.)
You commented that EOSIs allow you to change your mind about exiting and re-entering the SAME station. But logically that should then also apply to normal OSIs and all other stations as well! I bet many people get double charged when they are simply confused, as did I (above). My teenage son recently got lost when changing at Green Park (there are long tunnels between all three Tube lines) and got charged twice when exiting and promptly re-entering the only gateline. (The Helpline agreed to refund this but only “as a goodwill gesture”, grrr!)
I also “vote” for an OSI between Euston Sq and Warren St. Yes, there are usually better routes, but it should still be an option to change between two such close stations on different lines that aren’t interconnected. Curiously, if you enter “Gt Portland St to Oxford Circus (by Tube only)” into the TFL Journey Planner, it sends you all the way to Kings Cross to change back onto the Victoria Line! That’s daft if you look on a map – and the interchange at KGX is no quicker than walking from ESq to WSt! If the planner reflects TFL’s thinking, perhaps that goes some way to explain the lack of an OSI?
Yes, normal OSIs definitely only apply between different gatelines. Normally EOSIs are set as a result of disruption. By it’s very nature the effects of disruption can change quite quickly, so that is why they allow re-entry at each station. I am still surprised that the temporary OSI for Tottenham Court Road has been implimented as an EOSI whereas the one for Blackfriars is done with permanent OSIs.
As to Warren Street, it keeps being mentioned here and I know some staff from TfL read this blog, so maybe it’ll be added at some stage in the future.
Do I need to touch out at Waterloo East (and touch in when returning) if I want to continue a rail journey via Waterloo train station.
Yes you do. Touch out on the bridge from Waterloo East and touch in at the gateline on Waterloo mainline to combine the two journeys into one. If you forget to touch the validators on the bridge you will get a maximum journey charge.
Thanks for the quick reply, Mike.
I was thinking about suggesting an OSI between Bethnal Green NR and both Bethnal Green and Whitechapel Tube. Also one between Cambridge Heath NR and Bethnal Green tube. These connections are less than a 10 min walk and are very handy for travel between east and north-east London.
I agree, all three of those connections seem reasonable as OSIs. I can see a little confusion because of the way the rail services map is drawn in that area (i.e. Bethnal Green tube is in completely the wrong place), but that’s no reason not to set them up, of course.
Thanks Mike. I think I’ll suggest this to TfL.
I would add my support for an OSI for Euston Square/Warren Street AND Great Portland Street/Regents Park. Would make sense for west London to/from north London journeys, and also to reduce the no. of changing passengers at Euston and Kings X.
@Ben: if you have any joy getting the ear of TfL, perhaps you would advise which department controls OSIs !
Not sure I agree with GPS/RP, and certainly not from West to North as any sane person would do that at Baker Street. South to East has limited appeal, but would probably be better served by Warren Street to Euston Square.
Can I also request Euston Sq – Warren St as an OSI – only a few hundred yards – after the hike from the new KX entrance to the trains it’s nothing!
I want to travel from Upper Holloway to Clock House.
The fare says it is £3.50/4.60 but from Gospel Oak to Clock House it is only £1.70/2.30 via Stratford. Is this correct?
Yes it is. The reason, I guess, is the number of changes required, coupled with the overall journey time. If you really want to go via Stratford then you can reduce the fare a little by touching out and in again at Gospel Oak. That way the Upper Holloway to Gospel Oak bit would only cost £1.30/£1.40. In terms of journey time I’d strongly recommend walking a little further to Archway and taking the Northern Line to London Bridge.
If you believe that your suggested journey (via Stratford) is reasonable then you could try emailing the helpdesk and ask them to pass on your request to the fares team to consider.
Very stupid question (I imagine). I commute into Waterloo East on the overground but work closer to Southwark Station. If I exit the Waterloo East platform into Southwark underground station I then have to go through the barriers into the station, walk a few feet and go out the other barriers to get to the street. If I use oyster to do this – with no actual journey involved – will I be charged?
It’s not stupid because it is an unusual situation. The answer is no, because there is a special arrangement that allows you to do just that for no charge above your NR fare.
Hi Mike, I normally take an overground train from New Cross Gate to Canada Water to get a Jubilee line into zone 1. I know they have NR to London Bridge but how do I go about using the OSI and change from NR London Bridge to London Bridge underground?
Just touch out at the gateline at London Bridge NR and touch in at the LU gateline within 20 minutes. The system then joins them together. However, you are currently doing the right thing price-wise going via Canada Water unless you need to speed your journey up. Overground and Underground are both TfL rail so you avoid the premium for mixing NR and TfL and travel in zone 1.
Did I imagine that there was an osi between monument and London bridge before?!
That’s not one that I’ve ever heard before. I’d say they were too far apart to be considered an OSI. Plus, Bank and London Bridge are both on the Northern Line.
Unsure wether I found a flaw in the system on the 30th December or not.
There were no Northern Line trains between Camden Town and High Barnet / MHE because of planned works.
I appreciate there is an OSI of 20 minutes between Camden Town and Camden Road.
There may have been an emergency OSI in place on this day as I travelled between Baker Street and Camden Town been charged the correct £1.90 fare before continuing 15 minutes later between Camden Town and Old Street and it been shown as a continuation of previous journey.
If there were engineering works from Camden Town that day then there would almost certainly have been some emergency OSIs in place. You can always re-enter the same station when an EOSI is active, so that would explain what happened.
Recently, I have been baffled to find that touching out and touching in at Tower Hill did not complete a journey and start another. Yoday, Oyster CSC said there is a 15 minute OSI between Tower Hill LU and Tower Hill LU. i.e. between Tower Hill LU and itself. I suggest another FOI request to resolve this.
That’s interesting. Can I ask when these journeys were? I’ll certainly look into this anyway.
Wednesday, 08 February 2012
09:33 – 09:59 Tower Hill to Moorgate £0.00 £15.95
09:12 – 09:27 Whitechapel to Tower Hill £2.00 £15.95
Wednesday, 15 February 2012
???? – 09:42 [No touch-in] to Moorgate £4.60 £6.80
09:11 – ???? Tower Hill to [No touch-out] £4.90 £11.40
08:56 – 09:11 Moorgate to Tower Hill £2.00 £16.30
[MGT-THL + immediate THL-MGT]
The latter experience was the result of my not knowing about the OSI. Oyster has auto-refunded the overcharge, but it is all very tedious.
I emailed mailto://ENQUIRY.TUBE@tfl.gov.uk asking why ticket office staff lacked the power to resolve the overpayment.
Thursday, 16 February 2012
09:57 – 10:08 Tower Hill to Temple £0.70 £35.60
09:26 – 09:42 Whitechapel to Tower Hill £2.00 £36.30
That’s very interesting and one that I will definitely be following up. Thanks for drawing it to my attention.
Hi, learnt quite a few things from your site! Bit confused about one thing though, I am looking to get from Fulham Broadway to West Ealing. This would require me to get the underground to ealing broadway and then NR to West Ealing. Would this be an OSI so charged the normal £1.50 peak it would be to Ealing Broadway or is there an extra charge to change from tube to NR? Thanks
Just change trains at Ealing Broadway. There is no OSI because it is all one station. Please ignore any validators on the tube platforms at Ealing Broadway as these are for people starting or ending an Oyster journey and using paper tickets for the rest of their FGW journey. If you do touch on one it will end your journey and may lead to a penalty fare if checked by an RPI afterwards, although the Oyster fare will be corrected when you touch out at the end of the journey. FGW use TfL fares so there is no extra charge to change between them and the Underground.
Hi Mike, I am baffled by all this ‘Oyster’ info!!
I am visiting London in June & have just purchased two Oyster cards for myself & partner. We will be staying in Sutton for 6 days before traveling on to Gatwick for next leg of our holiday. I don’t suppose we will travel in & out of central London during the 6 days but would like to move around possibly on shorter journey’s. I do not have a clue about use of Oyster and the network system. I am wondering if I done the right thing buying Oyster at all.
For travel around the London zonal travelcard area you have done the right thing. Even if you only hop on a couple of buses you’ll save money over paying cash.
There’s an OSI allowed between Cannon Street NR and Bank LU, but does this also cover Monument LU? As Cannon Street LU is closed on weekends, and Monument is only a short walk away, this would make sense.
Bank and Monument are effectively one station, but I think you have to go in via a Bank station gateline to get the OSI. There is also an OSI between Cannon Street NR and Mansion House if you want to get straight to the District/Circle lines.
Just a heads up to anyone else using the Kentish Town West – Kentish Town OSI.
About once a month, I travel off-peak from Hackney Central to Highgate, making it a zone 2-3 journey by using this OSI. There is no pink reader at Kentish Town West.
I have a young person railcard loaded onto my oyster. On two separate occasions, the oyster system charged me £1.70 instead of 95 pence. I have phoned each time. The first time the TFL member of staff spotted the error and issued a refund. The second time, I had to ask the TFL member of staff to look back at my journey history to verify the previous refund, as the staff member initially accepted the answer the single fare finder gives for Hackney Central to Highgate (with railcard). The single fare finder does not allocate the discounted off-peak fare if you avoid zone one for this journey.
The second time I spoke with them about this, having been issued with a refund, I asked when this anomaly would get rectified. The member of staff said not till January next year, at the discretion of the Mayor(!!) Is this true? The staff member also said that anomalies like this should have been reviewed in May, but were not. Oh well….
This is a known issue which is supposed to be covered by automatic refunds a few days later. This has been agreed with London Travelwatch, so if it doesn’t happen they would probably like to know so they can chase it up. I covered the story a few weeks ago on this site.
As to the actual error, it is not just a missing record in the fares database. It seems to be tied in with how routes are defined and as such may well take a long time to fix.
Travelling from Caterham to Upper Holloway via overground from clapham junction appears to cost £4.60 according to the tfl website, however travelling to gospal oak is only £2.30. I know there is an oyster card route validator at gospal oak, so should the journey to upper holloway still only cost £2.30? Or is it a designated zone 1 journey??
It appears to be a designated zone 1 journey. I reckon that is because the number of changes and the roundabout nature of the route means that it is considered unlikely that you would go that way. However, I don’t even think that the quoted fare is right for that journey because it’s possible to make it the other way round using only NR services (Caterham – Norwood Junction – Highbury & Islington – Gospel Oak – Upper Holloway). Again, the number of changes is probably ruling out the route, but I struggle to see how the obvious route is much quicker. I think they expect you to go Caterham – London Bridge – West Hampstead (Jubilee) – Gospel Oak – Upper Holloway. But London Bridge to West Hampstead can also be done on NR via Thameslink. I’d contact the helpdesk about that one and ask them to consider altering the fares.
07:22 – 07:32 East Ham to West Ham £1.40
*07:22 Touch in, East Ham £4.60
*07:32 Touch out, West Ham +£3.20
07:36 – 08:20 West Ham to Wembley Park £2.60
*07:36 Touch in, West Ham £4.60
*08:20 Touch out, Wembley Park +£2.00
Total: £4.00 (just for 4 min of the same station OSI)
Date: Sun, 19/05/2012
I’m not sure what you are asking here. That looks like two separate journeys, which is what I’d expect. If an OSI had taken effect then it would have been joined together as one. Why did you touch out and in again at West Ham?
Paddington LU Paddington LU 20
appears without a note above.
While I believe it, it is not in OSI_Report_Jan2012_V4_22112011.xls
which I got in a recent request.
Where does it come from?
The interchange seems to be between the H&C gateline (to platforms 15 & 16) and the other gatelines (Bakerloo, Lawn and Praed Street).
That’s a very good spot!
You’ll appreciate that the list provided by TfL in response to FOI requests is compressed into quite a small file which is not very user friendly. They also have a tendency to abbreviate random station names which affects the order that rows appear in when sorted. Therefore, whenever I get a new list I have to undertake a largely manual process to check that nothing existing has changed. Where some lines appear out of order compared to my full list this requires jumping about and can result in not going back to the same place.
I’ve now re-checked the Jan 2012 list and the previous May 2011 list and it would appear that the line consisting of Paddington LU and Same NLC OSI has disappeared. I agree that it is supposed to be between the H&C gateline and the other entrances, but I’m not sure whether the recent major building work has resulted in some routes being removed around Paddington. As part of a recent test checking out a BBC and Evening Standard story I utilised what I thought was that interchange and it certainly seemed to work. It may be that they have simplified it so that there is only the one internal OSI with timings consistant with a standard LU & NR interchange (ie 20 minutes to LU and 40 minutes to NR). I will have to make some enquiries.
This weekend the Metropoitan Line is closed for engeneering work between Wembley Park and Rayners Lane/Northwood. On a PAYG journey from Finchley Road to Rickmansworth presumanly you touch out at Wembley Park to join the replacement bus and touch in again at Northwood to resume the journey. Does the system allow for this and treat it as one journey?
Either the system will allow for it at the time, or you will get a credit back to the card after a few days. If neither has happened and you think you’ve been overcharged then contact the helpdesk.
Good site. Please can you confirm how much it would cost me during peak hours for the following journey?
Sutton to London Bridge in southern train
and the london bridge to Moorgate on the northern line (no swipe out required on northern line)
And then Moorgate to new Southgate on first capital connect. Thanks a lot for your help.
Taking your route costs £5.90 in the peak. You can reduce this to £4.50 if you avoid the Underground by travelling with FCC from Sutton to St Pancras, walk to Kings Cross and take another FCC to Finsbury Park then to New Southgate. At certain times you may get a direct train from Kings Cross to New Southgate.
Interestingly, Hamstead > Hamstead Heath (12 mins walk) is not a valid interchange. Tried it this weekend. How else would you get from NW London to NE London avoiding zone 1? Eg Golders Green > Seven Sisters.
I’d probably walk between Camden Town and Camden Road, also both in zone 2 and a lot closer than the Hampsteads.
Ah, on the tube map it looks further, and the indication of 20 mins for the interchange reinforced my impression that it was further away 🙂
The interchange time is at least 2.5 times more than the average person would need.
Need to travel from Clapham Common to Hanwell with interchange at Paddington. Will the Oyster reader charge this correctly as one single journey even though we touch in and out at at Paddington to get onto NR?
Yes it will unless you take too long between touching out and in again. It should be 40 minutes from LU to NR.
On Wednesday, 25 July 2012, I went between Mile End and Moorgate, via Aldgate East and Aldgate. My travel was recorded as one journey rather than two. It was the first capped journey of the day.
10:18 – 10:46 Mile End to Moorgate £1.30 £5.05
10:46 Touch out, Moorgate +£0.70 £5.05
10:35 Touch in, Aldgate £0.70 £4.35
10:26 Touch out, Aldgate East +£0.10 £5.05
10:18 Touch in, Mile End £1.40 £4.95
I ‘phoned the Oyster help line on 26 July to ask if an OSI is in place between Aldgate East and Aldgate.
Today, 26/07, I was called and told that between 22/07 and 12/08 and 29/08 to 09/09, there are symmetrical OSIs as follows:
20′ Aldgate – Aldgate East
30’ Monument – London Bridge National Rail.
(The latter allows crossing London Bridge as a pedestrian, rather than going via Bank and London Bridge Underground. There is already an OSI between London Bridge Underground and London Bridge National Rail.
I think a case can be made for a permanent OSI between Aldgate and Aldgate East.
Thanks StarWill, that’s very useful information.
I think this article already answers my question but I wanted to double check as it will make a big difference on where I choose to live. I’m looking at places in Clapham Junction so I’d often be going from there and changing onto the underground at stations like Victoria, Vauxhall, Waterloo and West Brompton. Am I right in thinking I’ll only be charged for one journey rather than the overground half and then the underground half?
Thanks in advance!
You are right, but different routes incur different charges. Changing at West Brompton is cheapest because all your travel is on TfL priced services; changing at Vauxhall is more expensive but sometimes cheaper than changing at Waterloo or Victoria.
Thanks for your response, really helpful stuff! I guess this would explain why a trip from Bermondsey to Clapham Junction via Waterloo at 6pm cost 3.70 today. I was still a little confused though because the TFL single fare finder said the trip would cost 2.70. Does it not take into account the cost of national rail journeys even though it suggests using national rail on its route finder?
No it doesn’t, and I’ve had that arguement with the Oyster helpline before.
The default fare of £2.70 involves changing at Westminster and West Brompton again. It’s the old problem that they don’t describe the route for the default fare, only the alternative fares, which you have to click another button to see. When you do you’ll find that £3.70 is the fare when changing between Underground and National Rail at Waterloo.
Why is this information not shown on the TFL website? You would of thought this is the type of information people would find useful, especially during the 2012
I completely agree.
I wandered from the new(ish) South bank entrance of Blackfriars NR down to Southwark tube station the other day. Only took a few minutes so I wondered if that might be a possible future OSI candidate.
I hope so, Simon.
Thanks for your site!
The interchange that shafts me several times a year is the following.
Attempting to get from Finsbury Park to Blackfriars. I exit the tube at St Pancras and walk across to the Thameslink terminal. Oh dear, trains are horribly delayed. I abort and walk back to the tube and use Victoria/District to get there. Hey presto, I am charged for an extra journey.
This one really riles me as it really should permit a brief exit and reentry at the same station, especially where there are delays on national rail.
There is a way around it in this case. After finding disruption on the NR lines you need to get back to one of the Kings Cross gatelines to the tube station. Providing you enter within 15 minutes of exiting the journey will be joined back together. See note 4 below the table above for more details.
Thanks for this great site
Do you know the situation at Battersea Park and Queenstown Road? – the nationalrail website suggests that I could easily travel from Denmark Hill to Putney (national rail) giving the option of either getting a connecting train or walking between the two depending on timings – would I be able to touch out at Battersea Park, walk to Queenstown and then touch in again with my oyster?
You can do that, but it’s not a recognised OSI so you would be charged for two journeys.
I want to travel from Watford Junction to Warren street all during off peak times. However, i want to make my journey even cheaper by splitting my journey, while still using my Oyster.
I was going to go from Watford Junction to Clapham Junction then exit Clapham Junction.
Then i was immediately going to enter Clapham Junction again and go through West bromptom to Warren Street.
I am hoping that this would count as two seperate journeys so that i don’t have to pay as much? Do you think this will work? (It just seems cheaper to me not to go into zone one straight from Watford)
Yes, it will work, but it will take ages. You could also get off at Willesden Junction, touch out and back in again, then travel on to Euston. From there it’s a short walk to Warren Street, or you can still use the tube if you want. Just ensure that you touch out and back in again using the yellow validators/gateline and NOT the pink route validators.
Thanks mike for the speedy reply. It’s really good having someone who knows about this kind of subject shed some helpful light on the matter.
Another designated journey “requiring travel through zone 1” that I’ve just tried (unsuccessfully) to get a refund for. I have a railcard loaded onto my pay-as-you-go oyster card. I did an off-peak journey from Highgate to Mile end, using the OSI at Camden Town-Camden Road to get out to stratford. Touched the pink validator at Stratford and changed onto central line and touched out at Mile End.
In both directions, I was charged £1.70. I was expecting the zone 2-3 journey to cost 95p each way. The operator at Oyster said it was nothing to do with him, but with TFL, and that some journeys ‘are being looked at’, but he couldn’t say when.
Any ideas? Seems unfair to me, as single fare finder gives the alternative 95p fare for Highgate to Stratford, and also 95p for Highgate to Bow Church, just a short walk up the Mile End road from Mile End station
I can see your frustration. TfL agree that for Stratford you may well avoid zone 1 and Bow Church is on the DLR so again you are quite likely to go via Stratford. With Mile End the simpler interchange at Bank is seen as much more likely than several changes and some walking. The best suggestion is to write into TfL requesting an alternative route for Mile End via Stratford and see what they say. If enough people ask it may well be given greater consideration.
Today I went from Harrow on the hill to Stratford by taking the Metropolitan line, then the overground from West Hampstead. The TfL website said it should cost me 2.60, but it cost me more than 5 pounds. Was that supposed to happen? Do you know if I can avoid zone 1 on this route? I will also need to get to Stratford this weekend when there’s a part closure on the Met. line. Can you help me out? Thank you!
Harrow-on-the-Hill to Stratford via West Hampstead does avoid zone 1 and is shown as an alternative fare. Did you touch in and out at the beginning and end and also at each West Hampstead station? Also, how long did the overall journey take? If it was over 110 minutes then that might also have been an issue. As to this weekend, there are replacement buses along the Met/Jubilee route or you coukd take the Bakerloo or London Overground instead to Willesden Junction and change there for Stratford.
Hi, thanks for the reply!
I did touch in and out at West Hampstead, because it is an OSI. I think the journey was a little over 110 minutes.
In that case you should call the Oyster helpline and request a refund on the overcharge.
I got a refund, thanks!
Good news, thanks for letting us know.
I am not sure if this question has been asked and answered before but if I am going on the DLR from Elverson Road to Lewisham and then switch from the DLR to the National Rail immediately would I still need to swipe my Oyster card in and out at Lewisham. I believe that there are no pink card readers at Lewisham.
Lewisham is two seperate stations so you should touch out from one and back in to the other. As long as you do this within 20 minutes then the two journeys will be combined as one. If you don’t make either touch then the journey will still be charged correctly, but be aware that the NR station is gated and if you have to touch in there then you need to have touched out in the DLR station.
I’m trying to ascertain why there is an anomoly with the Oyster PAYG price when using the New Cross Gate/New Cross OSI for a National Rail journey.
I wish to make a weekend journey from Purley Oaks to Ladywell. The single fare finder on the TfL site shows that the price is £3.40 with no cheaper alternative fares. The single fare should be £2.30 for off-peak Zone 2-6 PAYG.
However if I were to choose a slightly different National Rail journey say from Purley Oaks to Mottingham using the NXG/NX OSI the cheaper option of £2.30 is available !
I did contact the Oyster helpline and they were fairly clueless, even suggesting that my proposed journey actually entered Zone 1. So much for their knowledge.
The bottom line is do you think that the system will charge me £2.30 or £3.40 in practice when I make the journey from Purley Oaks to Ladywell via New Cross Gate/New Cross ?
That’s a bug. The New Cross (Gate) option has been forgotten on quite a few flows. I’ll report it to the helpline as well. It might be better telling them via the contact form.
Surely there should be an OSI between Wembley Stadium Station and Wembley Central! Its a short walk between them.
It’s a possibility. The service at Wembley Stadium isn’t great though. Try suggesting it to the helpdesk.
This will most likely come across as a silly question. I am travelling from kingsbury to west hampstead and then west hampstead to gunnersbury via london overground. Should I get a travelcard for zones 2-4 or just 3-4 since I won’t be exiting west hampstead except to exchange from LU to overground. Thanks!!
You’ll need zones 2-4, not only because those are the ones you are using, but also because West Hampstead is 3 seperate stations so you’ll have to exit and re-enter. If you want to save money then you’ll need to change at Wembley Park, Northwick Park, walk to Kenton and change again at Willesden Junction touching on the pink validator as you change platforms.
Great, thanks Mike!!
Hi Mike, I sometimes need to travel from NR Greenhithe and then change to DLR at either Greenwich or Woolwich – so need to use NR railcard ’til Greenwich/Woolwich and then swipe to use Oyster for DLR journey – but there don’t appear to be any swipe points on the platforms at either station – where do I swipe in to avoid a penalty fare? Do I have to go all the way to the station entrances (and miss the DLR train usually!) to do this at both Greenwich and Woolwich? Thanks so much!
At Woolwich there are validators as you come over the bridge from the up platform and in the lobby alongside the down platform, both just before going down escalators to the DLR. At Greenwich the nearest validators are in the subway linking the two DLR platforms.
As others have said, this is brilliant! And so.. I have an anomaly – East Dulwich Overground to Angel Underground, via London Bridge. Charging me £3.30 for a single off peak where as the TFL pricing grid seems to suggest this journey should cost £2.10 off peak since it’s a zone 2 to zone 1 trip. Is £3.30 correct? Thanks for your insight! Best wishes.
East Dulwich is a National Rail station (as opposed to London Overground), so the fare you need is the NR through fare which will be more expensive as it involves zone 1.
Fascinating. I’ve lived in London and travelled with oyster almost everyday for years and had no idea. Noticed I wasn’t charged again when changing between Catford stations a few months ago, but had no idea there were so many.
I very frequently travel from Brockley to either Baker Street or Finchley Road on the the Jubilee, but normally avoid the NR trains to London Bridge, instead taking the Overground to Canda Water thinking I had to do this so as not to be charged two journeys. Am I correct in thinking that the London Bridge OSI listed above means it actually wouldn’t cost any more?
Yes and no!
Using the OSI at London Bridge will join the two journeys together, but it will cost more because you are mixing national rail and TfL rail in a journey involving zone 1. As long as you touch the pink route validator at Canada Water you will only be charged for a TfL rail fare which is cheaper. This is because London Overground counts as TfL rail when used with other TfL lines.
So does this means when you interchange between Canary Wharf DLR or Heron Quays (and touch out) and Canary Wharf Tube station (and touch in again) you will only be charged for 1 journey if you use pay as you go?
Yes, that’s exactly what it means.
No OSI North Ealing / West Acton?
And no Bayswater / Queenway?
And no Hampstead Heath / Belsize Park
In West London those lines were very badly designed, they seem to go out of their way to have no Central / Piccadilly Line interchanges. They offer Hanger Lane to Park Royal but that is possibly longer (although I did it once) and along the A40 compared to a relatively quiet Queens Drive.
As for Bayswater – Queensway I guess there’s a case that it would be useful for East-East on both lines.
Hampstead Heath – Belsize Park is the only practical change for West to North without going all the way to Camden Town / Camden Road. The change is a moderately long one though (and they should seriously consider how to fit in a new station with an interchange where the lines intersect).
My understanding is that they won’t sanction a long walk except in very extreme circumstances, which probably rules out Hampstead Heath. The time taken to walk between Bayswater and Queensway is virtually the same as going along to Notting Hill Gate and back so I don’t see that one happening any time soon. The Acton/Ealing walk does look tempting, but who would use it? From the North West Picadilly to East Central you are probably better off changing at Hanger Lane/Park Royal, while from the South Picadilly to East Central you’d be better off going via Ealing Broadway.
You can always email/write to the helpdesk and ask them to consider any of these possible interchanges.
Thanks 🙂 Great site 🙂
Hi Mike, I am travelling from Lewisham to New southgate and there are suggestions that I can avoid zone 1 in other to pay a cheaper fare, how do I go about it, thanks a lot.
There are three routes for this. Most expensive involves crossing London by tube. In the middle is Lewisham to New Cross to Highbury & Islington* to New Southgate which is National Rail only** but still goes via zone 1. Cheapest is Lewisham DLR to Stratford to Highbury & Islington to New Southgate which avoids zone 1 but probably takes a bit longer. The middle one is a fare which I persuaded them to include once the East London Line re-opened.
* You’ll need to change somewhere between Surrey Quays and Haggerston as New Cross trains only go to Dalston Junction.
** Don’t worry if the Moorgate to Finsbury Park line is closed because it’s still classed National Rail only even if you have to use the Victoria line between Highbury & Islington and Finsbury Park, thanks to inter-available fares.
Oyster has just been put on Brentwood station, I have to travel between Brentwood and canary wharf via Stratford station. Do i have to swipe off greater Anglia train at Stratford and on again on the jubilee line or can i walk straight through?
I was coming home today and ticket inspectors were fining ppl who hadn’t swiped out of the underground and into greater Anglia at Stratford? Is that correct? I thought if there was no gates you could just walk straight through, and just swipe at the start and end of your journey?
As long as you are in the Oyster system then you don’t need to touch while interchanging at Stratford. The ticket inspectors will have been picking up other irregularities, probably travelling without a valid ticket on the GA part of the journey.
If I travel from Wimbledon to Waterloo via National Rail, and then take the Northern Line from Waterloo (or vice versa), should I only be charged for one journey? I did this a number of times earlier in 2012, but stopped because I seemed to be getting charged twice, and it was too expensive (I now take a much more circuitous route).
You will be charged one journey, but it will be at the premium rate because you are mixing NR and TfL on a journey involving zone 1. If you take the District line from Wimbledon to Embankment and then change to the Northern line it will cost less.
Thought it best I pass on my recent experience of using the online facility for filling in the missing details of an uncompleted journey.
I was making a through journey between West Drayton and Angel via Paddington.
Upon arrival at Paddington the platform 12-14 gateline was open with the oyster readers not working so I had an incomplete journey for this section, I then continued tapping in and out at Paddington and Angel as usual.
I then completed the details online and was credited with a refund of £2.90 to bring my journeys for the day to the value of the daily cap of £8.50.
The moral of the story is do not use the online feature for a journey that involves on OSI as the system cannot work this out correctly and will charge you for two separate journies, my total for the day was only two off peak £3 fares and a bus ride of £1.40 making a total of only £7.40 not £8.50.
Thanks for the feedback, Malcolm. Have you emailed the helpdesk with this one. They may arrange a further refund if they agree with your explanation.
Yes thanks Mike due for collection from today.
Annoying part was been put on hold by the help line and then disconnected three times in a row !!!!!!
Hi, I’m sorry because this will sound really dim but… I come in from Pinner to Farringdon every day at rush hour then walk down to Fleet Street. Usually I have breakfast near Farringdon tube station. Question is, can I use my Oyster on the train from Farringdon train station to City Thameslink without paying any extra? The Farringdon tube and train stations are right across the road from each other, like 2 minutes walk, so would I still be able to have breakfast at Farringdon first? (there is a place there I like a lot and cheap food!)
As long as you exit from one gateline and enter again via the other one within 10 minutes then the two journeys will be combined as one.
My journey from Clapham Junction to Bromley South each evening usually costs £2.90 using OSI. £1.90 from Clapham Junction to Victoria and then the additional pound deducted when I touch out at Bromley South. However on 3 occasions now I have been deducted the £1.90 at Victoria and this is followed by another full £2.90 when I complete my journey at Bromley South. Bringing the total charge to £4.80.
Why would this happen? It might be worth mentioning that when it happened this evening the gates were open at Bromley South (but I definitely touched in and out where required).
This happens in one of two ways. Most likely is that you took longer than 30 minutes between touch out and touch back in. Did you visit a pub or cafe? The other complication would be if you managed to touch out and back in at the same gateline. As far as I know the Southern gatelines cover platforms 8-19 while SouthEastern is only platforms 1-7. I know it is possible to cross between platforms 7 and 8 at the far country end of the platforms. There also might be a problem if one of your trains gets moved to the wrong part of the station.
Finally, you do realise that you can make the journey for only £2.20 by avoiding zone 1? Either change at Vauxhall and Brixton or at Peckham Rye or Crystal Palace and Beckenham Junction.
Hope this helps.
Thanks Mike. The train this evening from Clapham junction arrived at platform 8 which is not normally the case, I touched out there and touched back in on the 1-7 gateline. I only waited 5 mins max before touching back in so don’t think it is the length of time on this occasion. Also thanks for the info about avoiding zone 1, will look into those alternatives.
As long as you definitely touched out from platform 8 then you should have been OK. Check your journey history tomorrow and paste the details here so I can try to work out what has happened.
Just done a journey Hoxton-highbury & islington-Camden road-OSI-Camden town-Edgware and it’s charged me £3 for this . I haven’t touched zone 1 and it took £1.50 when I exited at Camden road. I went straight to Camden town station within 6/7 mins but when I touched out at edgware it took the full £3. Any suggestions to an explanation why this has happened?!
Yes, it’s a known issue. You should get an email from TfL offering you a refund in the next couple of days, or if not then contact the helpdesk.
Hi Mike, Thanks, I didn’t do anything but seem to have had a refund on my oyster for that journey. Thanks for the message back. You have such a useful site!
I travel from Sidcup to Canary Wharf via Lewisham DLR.
I have a Zone 2-5 travelcard loaded. I believed with a travelcard touch in/out is not required; can be done where required only to open the barriers (I thought)..
I touched in at Sidcup. The barriers were not working at Lewisham NR, so I could not touch out.
I touched in at Lewisham DLR. A £2.10 extension fare was added as it recorded that as the Exit for the journey that I started at Sidcup, and assumed it was via Zone 1.
An odd situation, but with a travelcard 2-5 loaded if you are unable to touch out to complete the NR journey, then you can not touch in at Lewisham DLR without causing PAYG balance to be taken, and then having to make a refund claim!
That’s an interesting anomaly. It is true that you don’t have to touch in or out when within your zones, although they do recommend that you do in case you want to go beyond the zones on your travelcard. I must ask though, why did you touch in at Lewisham DLR as that station is ungated? Also, even if the gates are not operational, the Oyster readers usually do work. As long as the reader is showing orange before you touch it then it should still record entry or exit as appropriate.
Sorry if this has been answered before, but what’s the point of having an OSI for two different entrances to the same tube station? What type of situation is it expected to cover? (For example, refer to note 2: “Canary Wharf LU includes identical details for both the main entrance and the Upper Bank Street entrance. The internal OSI is between those entrances”.)
There’s usually a reason and often it’s to account for passenger error. Not sure about Canary Wharf, but at Oxford Circus there are some gates which only lead to an exit. If you go through them when wanting to interchange then you have to go round to the main entrance and back in again. Others are where an accessible route requires you to leave the station and re-enter via another gateline.
On Saturday I made a journey from Stratford to King’s Cross. I took the Jubilee line from Stratford and changed onto the Northern at London Bridge. For some reason to interchange I had to touch out on the Jubilee barriers and touch in again (almost straight away) on the Northern gate line.
Upon arriving at King’s Cross I found it had charged me for two separate journeys – Stratford to London Bridge and London Bridge to King’s Cross. Surely it should have put them together as one journey?
Was there a problem at London Bridge on Saturday? You don’t normally need to go via the concourse to get between the two Underground lines, hence there is no same station OSI. If you contact the helpdesk I’m sure that they will arrange a refund as it will be obvious what has happened.
Another question o wise one! What happens when you attempt an OSI between Camden road and Camden town but find it’s only exit and interchange, and have to walk to mornington crescent?
Hopefully that will be covered by an emergency OSI involving the Camden stations and Mornington Crescent, but I don’t know. If you are overcharged then contact the help desk.
It’s probably a silly question but I’m quite new in London. If I’m travelling from Deptford to Charing cross for example first I have to take Southeastern towards London Cannon Street Rail Station than change at London Bridge and take Southeastern towards London Charing Cross Rail Station.
Do I have to touch out and than touch in again at London Bridge? I mean am I gonna be charged like I was travelling in zone 2-1 and than just in zone 1 again or just zone 2-1? Or if I’m lucky both of the trains are platform 1-10 or 11-18 and if I’m not I’ll just pay much more for my journey every day because I had to change?
Because if you change between two LU trains you never have to touch in and out if the two lines are at the same station. But with NL because some platforms have different entrance is it possible?!
You don’t have to touch out and in again at London Bridge. The Cannon Street train will arrive on either platform 2 or 3 and for Charing Cross you need platforms 5 or 6. Use the footbridge to change between platforms and you will only get charged one journey.
Thank you very much for the quick reply! It was very helpful 🙂 We are moving soon and planning to move to south London and I had no idea how the transport (NR) works there.
Hi Mike – Re: Tom41 15 April 2013 5:49 pm
If you don’t follow the interchange signs carefully at London Bridge Tube station you will end up at the way out and not the platform you intended to go to. Once up, I don’t believe you can’t go back down. It is clearly marked though.
I’d predict there’s going to be a new OSI between the two gate lines there will be at Kensington Olympia as the step free access route goes out of them and round via the Hammersmith Road bridge.
They haven’t yet installed the gates but are currently in progress.
Thanks for the tip off.
What journeys would involve changing platforms at Olympia? I know there’s the occasional Southern train that uses the “wrong” platform, but I’d have thought it would still be easier to change elsewhere than trek quite some distance round the local roads to cross the tracks. Even doubling-back N/S or S/N via adjacent lift-equipped stations is likely to be quicker if you have reduced mobility.
I read somewhere that if travelling from Clapham Junction to Highbury & Islington via Overground in either direction (clockwise or anticlockwise) TFL kindly assumes that you’ve travelled in zone 2 and charged £1.50 off-peak. Is this true?
Would this same fare also apply if travelling from Queens Road Peckham or New Cross Gate to Highbury & Islington?
Many thanks 🙂
Unfortunately not. It is very unlikely that anyone would go the long way round just to avoid Shoreditch High Street, so they logically charge for it.
I will be travelling from Paddington tube station to Cutty Sark DLR, and one of the steps is to walk from Canary Wharf tube station to Heron Quays DLR station, which (allegedly) takes about 4 minutes. Am I supposed to touch out my Oyster card at Canary Wharf, and touch in again at Heron Quays? Or do nothing?
Definitely touch out and in again.
Thanks, Mike! It occurred to me there might be no option, since there would undoubtedly be a ticket barrier leaving Canary Walk and one on entering Heron Quays DLR station!
Yes and no respectively. Almost all DLR stations are open with platform validators to touch in and out on.
Tried Camden Road to Camden Town, but forgot Sunday afternoon no entry. Directed to Mornington Cresent, but no osi so my fare was doubled (two singles).
Although I’ll use Kentish Town West to Kentish Town in future I feel there should be osi for Camden Road to Mornigton Cresent.
That’s not good. I’m sure that the helpdesk will agree to a refund if you explain what happened. You could also suggest Camden Road to Mornington Crescent, though I’m not sure how likely that would be. Is it only Sunday afternoon that’s a problem?
Yes the Camden Town ‘no entry’ problem is only Sundays between 1300 and 1730. I assume both escallators are set to up meaning the only way down is by the emergency stairs.
I posted to hopefully save others from the same problem.
Am I able to travel from Kensal Rise to Upper Holloway (Via Gospel Oak) to East Finchley (via Archway) for only £1.60 as it is 1 journey rather than 2/3?
You might be able to, although it isn’t the recommended route. They will join journeys together via either Camden Town/Road or Kentish Town/Town West. I am aware of other places where a similar via point does work even if it isn’t the listed one.
Hi Mike. If i am changing trains at Clapham Junction from NR to Overground, do I have to exit the station at the gate line using my NR ticket and then come back in again using my Oyster card? I have looked for pink readers at the LO platforms at Clapham Junction, but cannot see any. Thanks.
Yes you do. In your situation you need yellow readers because you are starting an Oyster journey. The reverse applies when switching back to paper at the end of an Oyster journey.
I’ve traveled from Chalk Farm to Shadwell (for a quick meeting) and then back to North Finchley within a two hour time frame. I don’t remember touching my Oyster in Shadwell on the way in and out as I didn’t see any stations for doing so. I’ve been charged £7.20 fine. Can I claim this back somehow and am I wrong for not seeing Oyster touch stations there?
I assume you mean Shadwell DLR. The readers are on small posts at the entrance to the station. They should be reasonably clear as the DLR is a compulsory ticket area and you must be touched in to use it. If you call the helpdesk and explain what you did they should adjust it. It’s not a fine though, just an incomplete journey charge.
On a recent journey from Oakwood to Oxford Circus, my daughter (16+) attempted to use the OSI at King’s Cross to exit and re-enter the Tube to meet a friend arriving at St Pancras (Thameslink). Unfortunately she took 18 mins and was charged for two journeys – fair enough, as the OSI is 15 min for LU-LU. She now knows to wait till her friend is due before exiting the Tube. But can I check a couple of things:
(1) Does the King’s Cross OSI work if you exit/re-enter the SAME gateline? Or only different ones?
(2) A long shot – what would happen if she entered and immediately exited the Thameslink NR barrier at St Pancras (or any other at KGX/STP) in the middle of that stop at King’s Cross? Would the system then apply the longer 30-40 min LU-NR OSI, or would it all go horribly wrong (eg charge for a NR journey)?
Normal OSIs do not work if the same gateline is used both ways. As for entering and immediately exiting one of the NR gatelines, that wouldn’t work. It’s a same station exit and could well result in a mixed NR+LU journey being charged.
Thanks again Mike
So exiting one LU gateline and re-entering another LU gateline mid-journey within 15 mins at King’s Cross WOULD be treated as an OSI then?
I did wonder whether entry/exit at the Thameslink NR gateline might incur a mixed fare as you suggest (as happened to us at Vauxhall once). But does it make any difference that St Pancras is in the middle of a TFL-fares section of the line? Maybe I’ll give it a try one day when I know I’ll be capped anyway!
Yes, the idea that you might get lost and follow the wrong signs mean that they allow re-entry by a different gateline. Good point about both STP and KGX being TfL-set routes. I’m still not sure it will work exactly as planned though.
It costs me £3.80 on Oyster PAYG to go from Wandsworth town to a zone 1 station changing from the train to the tube at Vauxhall. I can’t understand why its a pound more than the stated zone 1-2 single oyster fare – I’m touching in and out at Vauxhall well within the 20 minutes in the table shown above. Any ideas? thanks.
Wandsworth Town to (say) Oxford Circus is a National Rail through fare which includes the surcharge above the National Rail fare for mixing NR+TfL in a journey including zone 1. From today the peak fares are:
National Rail only: £2.50
TfL Rail only: £2.90
National Rail + TfL: £4.10
However, there is a special case for changing at Vauxhall (or Elephant) because the stations are in both zones 1 and 2. If the price of the NR part of the journey ending in zone 2 plus the TfL zone 1 single is less than the mixed fare above then you are charged the lower fare. For you, that’s £1.80 + £2.20 = £4.00.
Also, if you make the journey regularly (4+ days a week) then a zone 1-2 travelcard season at £31.40/week will save you money.
Thanks for the response Mike, most helpful.
I didn’t realise it would cost me that much more to go from [say] Wandsworth town into the city as opposed to nearby East Putney (also zone 2, but on the tube). Looks like the travelcard will work out cheaper most weeks as you say. Cheers
I would like to travel from Wembley park underground station (zone4) to west croydon overground station. I would have to change at canada water (change from underground service to overground service). Would i need to touch out at canada water underground station and touch in again at canada overground station? will i incur an extra charge if i had to do this, or will i still be charged for 1 fare zone 4-1 i.e from start (queensbury) to end (westcroydon) £3.80.
You don’t need to touch out and back in again at Canada Water as it is all one station.
Hi Mike, Just a quick one. I often travel from Mudchute to London Bridge, I usually get the DLR, touch out and go down to Canary Wharf station to get the Jubilee line. Can I not touch out of the DLR and enter Canary Wharf and continue as one journey? Many thanks!
Yes, that should be one journey unless you take longer than 20 minutes between touching out and back in again.
hi, this list includes blackfriers interchange. travelling from zone 6 to Westminster (zone 1) via blackfriers I am always charged twice – zone 6 to blackfriers (NR) and then again from blackfriers (LU) to Westminster. should this not be combined to a single journey?
I think you are being charged once, but in two stages. the Zone 6 to Blackfriars journey is a National Rail one which costs £5.90 in the peak. Once you go onto the Underground it becomes a NR+TfL mixed journey which adds a further £1.60 to make £7.50 in total. If you were being charged for two journeys then the tube part would be £2.20.
I keep arguing with TFL and my family that the best route to get to Heathrow from Gospel Oak/Kentish Town is the westbound overground to South Acton, a 15 minute walk to Acton Town, then the Piccadilly line the rest of the way. This saves about 20 minutes off the journey, and avoids going through West/Central London on a very crowded section of the Tube. Sadly, there is no OSI, so this is an expensive option. Well, not that expensive, but still more expensive than it ought to be.
How do I ask TFL to add an OSI for this route? Is there a good chance they would, or is it too long a walk? Seems only slightly longer than the Kentish Town to Kentish Town West walk – but maybe that’s just my imagination.
There is only one fare from Gospel Oak or Kentish Town West to Heathrow and that assumes you avoid zone 1. I think they expect you to change at Gunnersbury and Turnham Green, though I agree that the extra distance involved may well make the walk between Acton Town and South Acton comparable, or maybe even slightly quicker. I’d be shocked if it was as much as 20 minutes quicker though.
There is no published method for requesting OSIs, unfortunately. I have had some success by emailing the helpdesk and asking them to pass the enquiry onto the fares team. The walk is quite long for an OSI, but they did add a similar one in Ruislip after it was suggested on here. It took a while though. The prescence of the alternative rail route with one extra train may well mean that they aren’t interested though. Good luck if you try asking them.
By the way, from Kentish Town there are all kinds of options, starting with changing at either Camden Town or West Hampstead.
What exactly is the policy with refunds if overcharged due to human error eg forgot to swipe whether on exit or between rail and tube interchange so charged for 2 separate journeys?
I have just checked the TFL site and the only two refund types described are for delays and Oyster card losses.
Or are overcharging refunds a case by case discretionary issue?
I am guessing due to apathy and inattentiveness, there must be a lot of overcharged money that has not been ‘reclaimed’?
TfL are making efforts to avoid such overcharges. Sometimes a missed touch will result in a refund due to operational error which is emailed to you and available to pick up from an appropriate station. If you have an incomplete journey and the system can’t work out what you’ve done then you can be offered the chance to tell them from your online account. If all else fails then the helpdesk will usually refund any overcharges as long as the story given is believable.
Unfortunately there is money that TfL just can’t sort out, and if the card is unregistered and the owner doesn’t call in then yes, they do pocket a bonus. Sites like this try to spread the word so that more people are aware they can claim.
I agree that an OSI between South Acton and Acton Central would be *very* useful in terms of saving time/money. My regular journey is Hendon Central Northfields using Oyster PAYG (Z2-3, avoiding Z1 via Camden Road, Gunnersbury and Turnham Green, OR via Camden Road, West Brompton and Earls Court).
The interchanges at Gunnersbury and Turnham Green for the District Line during peak hours are poorly timed, and can mean waiting around on the platform for ~10 minutes at each of these stations – this is 20 minutes overall, so not ideal when you have only 90 minutes to complete a Z2-3 peak journey.
A different interchange that I used for the Piccadilly line when holding a Z2-3 travelcard, was to change at Shepherds Bush [LO], walk to Wood Lane (through Westfield), and then tube to Hammersmith. Benefits of this route over ‘via West Brompton’ advised by single fare finder:
* saves time by not needing to travel further than Shepherds Bush on London Overground;
* saves time as Hammersmith/City Line and Circle line trains run more frequently than District Line services
* Hammersmith station is further west on the Piccadilly line than Earls Court
I submitted a helpdesk ticket today to see if they will consider adding an OSI for Shepherds Bush [LO and LU] / Wood Lane [LU]. I am now going to do the same for South Acton / Acton Central given how much further west Acton Central is on the Piccadilly line compared to Turnham Green (or Earls Court, if avoiding Z1 via West Brompton and Earls Court).
I will come back with TfL’s response.
Thanks for the info. I had no idea that the Gunnersbury and Turnham Green interchanges could be so poor. Do let us know what their response is.
Thanks Mike. I do understand that if a mistake is genuine and can be explained then common sense should prevail and Oyster should be accommodating.
However, I was asking if there is a written policy outlining their responsibilities etc with regards to when Oyster has overcharged (and not self correcting)?
For example, how far back could we query if we have the receipts/ records etc? 28 days? 3 months? etc?
Obviously we should ideally be checking more regularly.
Personalised Oyster history is available for 8 weeks, after which time it is stripped of specific card details and kept only for statistical analysis. I believe that they ask people to claim within a month, though if the history was still there I’d imagine they’d deal with it up to the 8-week deadline.
No problem Mike.
TfL e-mailed this morning to say that my requests have been passed on to their Fares Manager for consideration.
I travelled from Notting Hill Gate to South Harrow and changed at Park Royal walking to Hanger Lane, but I was still charged £3.
Do you know why this happened?
There is only one fare for that journey and it assumes you’ll take the District to Earls Court then the Piccadilly. I’d say your route is quite reasonable, but TfL need to add it to the database.
I want to travel from Highbury & Islington via Stratford to Canary Wharf. Can I just pass through without touching my Oyster card at the Stratford station? I will be transferring from the Overground to the Jubilee line at Stratford.
Second question: if on either end of the journey I use the bus, will I be charged a bus fare? Will it not be included as part of the journey (with a fare of £1.60)?
(I’ve just moved from Manhattan, where buses were included in the total journey when using the Subway and did not require additional fare. It was very convenient.)
Grateful for your help!
You need to touch the pink reader on the Overground platform at Stratford or you will be charged as if you have gone via zone 1.
Sadly buses are not included with single rail journeys. They have their own cap which means you pay nothing after the 4th bus of the day. If you have a travelcard then all bus travel is included.
Sadly my OSI suggestions were rejected. Here’s TfL response in full:
Dear Mr Rose
I refer to my email of 28 March about out of station interchanges (OSIs), as I have now heard back from our fares people.
I regret to advise you that despite your comments there are currently no plans to introduce any new OSIs to our Oyster system.
OSIs are very carefully allocated to the interchanges that will offer benefit to the most Oyster users. In general, the agreement between us the National Rail Train Operating Companies, on the implementation of OSIs, is that they exist where the average walking time between the relevant stations is no longer than about ten minutes. In the majority of cases, the actual walking time between sides is no longer than five minutes. Longer interchanges or ones that are circuitous or would require specialised knowledge of the area of seemingly remote stations are not normally included.
In some exceptional cases, OSIs have been introduced where the average walking time between stations is higher than ten minutes. This has happened where the geography of the railway and pattern of service is such that certain journeys would become untenable without an OSI (examples of these are the OSIs between Ickenham and West Ruislip and between Bromley North and Bromley South).
In the specific case of journeys made via the London Overground to the western ends of the Piccadilly and District lines, there are reasonable interchanges at Gunnersbury (and Turnham Green) or West Brompton (and Earl’s Court). An OSI between South Acton and Acton Town stations could lead to customers unexpectedly encountering a long walk in the middle of their journey and has, therefore, not been implemented.
Regarding the provision of OSIs in the Shepherd’s Bush area, these currently exist between White City and Wood Lane and between the London Underground and London Overground stations at Shepherd’s Bush. There are no plans to offer other interchanges. We have found the operation of OSIs which have an ‘attraction’ (in this case the Westfield Shopping Centre) between their sides particularly problematic as regards customer perception of what is a reasonable ‘interchange’ time. There is a fine line between making an interchange between two services and making two separate journeys with a visit to an attraction in between. Defining separate journeys in such cases is difficult for an automated system to do and, of course, joining separate journeys together can lead to the overall journey time exceeding (Maximum Journey Time) time limits imposed in the system.
I’m sorry I cannot provide the reply you were seeking on this occasion.
Thanks for that. I have to say that I agree about the problem of putting an OSI through somewehere like Westfield. I see no reason to reject the Acton one though, so that is disappointing. On the diagramatic tube map the interchanges at Gunnersbury and Turnham Green seem very reasonable, but when you look at the geographic locations I can see how it could sometimes be quicker to walk.
Hi Mike, I am doing a journey very soon. & I’m wondering if you can do two osi’s in one journey? Thank you in advance Mike.
You can do as many as you like. Just remember that the maximum journey time still applies even if you take time to walk between stations, and if you go a roundabout route the MJT at the end is what the system expects for that journey, not the route you actually took.
Hi Mike, is there an OSI between Leyton St. & Leyton Midland Road St.
No there isn’t. The stations are too far apart compared to Leytonstone and Leytonstone High Road, which provides the same opportunities.
Hello Mike, have you ever asked why there is no OSI between Liverpool Street NR and Moorgate LU?
Why would you want one? Liverpool Street and Moorgate are both on the Circle, Ham&City and Met lines. They don’t generally provide OSIs where an Underground line does the same job. Cannon Street NR to Bank is one exception because the Circle and District lines go to Monument which is then a walk through to the Central line at Bank which is as far as you have to walk down Wallbrook.
However, things may change in the future when the Crossrail station opens linking the two Underground stations together.
Because it is easier to walk to Moorgate to take the Northern line than changing at either Bank or, particulalry, Moorgate – where there are multiple staircases up and down between lines.
Ah, I see. I think this comes under the problem of how complicated can they make the interchange network without inadvertantly causing people to be overcharged for making circular journeys.
Today I travelled from clapham junction to canary wharf. CJ to Canada water on NR and changing onto jubilee line. I thought I had touched out at Canada water but when I saw my fare of 1.60 at canary wharf I have a feeling I’ll have a penalty fare coming my way? What’s the correct fare for this route and where do I touch in/out at Canada water as platforms I exit onto and jubilee line are just a short escalator journey away from each other? I asked that question to the ticket office at canary wharf but I got a look like I was speaking another language?
Don’t worry, £1.60 is the peak fare for that journey as it is all in zone 2. You need to touch the pink validator at Canada Water on the Overground platforms near the escalator down to the Jubilee line. It sounds like you must have done that or you would have been charged £2.80 for going through zone 1.
I would like to go to Brixton from Hanger Lane station, but how can I avoid Zone 1 or from Park Royal to Brixton without going through Zone 1.
According to the single fare finder it’s possible from both. Hanger Lane – Shepherds Bush – Clapham Junction – Vauxhall – Brixton; or Park Royal – Earls Court – West Brompton – Clapham Junction – Vauxhall – Brixton. In the latter case you must touch the pink reader at West Brompton.
I am presuming that from today whilst the escalator works mean no entry to the Bakerloo line at Paddington that there will be a temporary OSI set up between Paddington LU / NR gate lines and Edgware Road Bakerloo Line as that is one of the advisory alternatives.
I cannot find any information on the time allowed for this transfer, the alternative would be to change to the Bakerloo Line at Baker Street.
I haven’t heard any info, but then I wasn’t aware it was happening until I got the email this morning from TfL. There may be an EOSI set up, or a temporary OSI. I’ll try and find out from some contacts. In the meantime, there is an OSI between the two Edgware Road stations, and as you point out people can change at Baker Street as well.
Thanks for that Mike
I walked Paddington NR -> Edgware Road Bakerloo on Saturday as the sign suggested and was charged two journeys..
I suspected that might happen. Please complain to the helpdesk and let us know what they say.
What’s the cheapest way to travel from Leyton to Southwark Mon – Fri for a 9-5 job? Is there a way of avoiding the zone 1- 3 travelcard? I already have a 16-25 railcard added onto my oysters but don’t know if it affect the cost
The railcard only affects off-peak fares and caps so it won’t help with a normal commute. If you only use your Oyster for 10 single journeys a week then in your case a weekly travelcard is overkill and a monthly or longer just about breaks even. If you make other journeys then a travelcard really is your best bet.
Hiya, I’m thinking about staying in a hostel near Willesden Green and need to commute to Camden Town… what would be the best way time and cost-wise for me to do this? I’ve not really used an Oyster card much before so it’s all a bit confusing!!
Willesden Green to West Hampstead on the Jubilee line then West Hampstead to Camden Road on the Overground. The whole journey is in zone 2 so it will only cost £1.60 each way. Camden Road is a short walk from Camden Town (about 1/3 mile). Any other route will take you into zone 1 and cost considerably more.
I don’ really understand the whole OSI thing, however, from what I think I got I conclude that there might be a problem with my planned journey from Putney Bridge to Greenwich Station via Canary Wharf and a walk to Heron Quays. Worthwhile using Oyster or not? Thanks a lot in advance.
Absolutely fine. That’s what the OSI is for, to join both parts of that journey up.
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