Confused at Hayes

Home Forums Fare and Capping Queries Confused at Hayes

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    laura ellis

    Hello Forum – what a brilliant site. Many thanks for all the useful info.

    I’m new to the capping issue and a bit out of practice at commuting. Apols for the multiple questions.

    I left Hayes on the 6.15am train yesterday and touched back in at 4 minutes past midnight (long journey home including a rail replacement bus being laid on from Lewisham). My fare came in at £18.70 (contactless) and I had travelled on 2 trains and made three tube journeys. The questions I have are:

    1. I thought the capped faire was less than this – have I been overcharged?
    2. Was it more because I just missed the midnight deadline and can I do anything about this given it was because of an RRB?
    3. If I get a Network Rail Card will it reduce my cap?
    4. Would it be cheaper on Oyster rather than contactless?

    Thank you!


    Hi Laura,

    The zone 1-5 daily cap is £12.70 so you were definately overcharged. The capping day runs from 0430-0430 so midnight doesn’t come into it. The RRB almost certainly has screwed things up. The Network Railcard can’t be added to an Oyster card because the minimum fare on weekdays means that no discount is applicable for the majority of journeys. Contactless should* be no more than Oyster and can sometimes work out cheaper.

    I’ve tried several combinations but without a bit more detail I can’t work out how £18.70 gets reached. If you can paste your journey history into a reply it’ll make sense. It’ll also point to which journeys you need to request a refund for. My guess is that the main issue was touching in at Hayes at the end of the day started a new journey instead of ending one. The other issue may be whether you touched out at Lewisham before getting the bus. All will become clear with history.

    *There are a very small number of use cases where contactless might charge more overall, involving Radlett and Potters Bar. Almost certainly not relevant for you.

    laura ellis

    Mike this is super helpful – my journey goes like this:

    Touched in at Hayes approx 0603 (wonder if I may have accidentally touched in twice – would that be a factor?)
    Travelled to London Bridge. Touched out.
    Tube to White City (approx 7am) touched in and out
    Tube to Ox Circus (approx 3pm) touched in and out
    Tube to London Bridge (approx 6pm) touched in

    This is where it gets a bit complicated. When I realised there was a RRB (and was with husband who was travelling back to Oxted) I decided to travel back to Oxted with him and get a lift to Hayes to collect my car and touch out. So, touching in at London Bridge at 11pm and then out at Hayes at 12.04 should have exactly replicated what would have been my London to Hayes journey – albeit it was achieved by a slightly circuitous route. Full disclosure, I was going to explain what happened at the barrier at Oxted and hope they let me through but in the event the barrier were open. 😉

    How would I go about getting any refund? Is it just the TfL site? Is there a record anywhere of my journey if made via contactless?


    Still puzzling.

    Hayes to White City £5.20 (off-peak as you touched in before 0630, assuming you went straight to the tube at London Bridge)
    White City to Oxford Circus £2.50
    Oxford Circus to London Bridge £2.40
    Total so far £10.10
    London Bridge to Hayes should have cost a further £2.60 to bring you up to the daily cap. After 1900 you get 2 hours and 5 minutes to make the journey so you shouldn’t have exceeded that, and Hayes has validators so you couldn’t be going the wrong way. If you touched twice in the morning they would have to have been separated by 2 minutes to makae a difference.

    Journey history. Do you have an account set up already? If yes, login* and add your contactless card to it and you’ll be able to see the history. If no, go to and scroll down to where it says 7-day journey and payment history. I strongly advise getting a proper account and adding your card to it because you can then see history for up to a year. If you look at the Journey history and queries page it shows how to contact them about a journey.

    I have to caution about what you did. Had there been a revenue check at Oxted you would probably have had to pay a penalty fare for travelling without a valid ticket. My recommendation would be to travel by the next train to East Croydon, touch out and get a ticket to Oxted and use that to get back in. Upper Warlingham is the furthest you could go on contactless, but your train may not have stopped there so you couldn’t touch out. No need to queue for the extra ticket at East Croydon as you can purchase an e-ticket on your phone. End of caution.

    *Logging into a TfL account can be a bit of a pain because they’ve screwed up implimenting the captcha code, but you should get in eventually. It usually takes two goes.


    Hi Laura,

    I’ve worked out a possible scenario that works. Did you possibly touch in at Hayes, decide to get a coffee, then touch in again more than 2 minutes after the first one? If you did then it looks like this:

    Hayes – Hayes £0.00
    Incomplete journey at London Bridge NR £8.60 (it’s now after 6.30 so peak)
    London Bridge – White City £3.00
    White City – Oxford Circus £2.50
    Oxford Circus – London Bridge £1.90 (reached zone 1-2 cap of £7.40 excluding the incomplete journey)
    London Bridge – Hayes £2.70 (charged as a zone 3-5 extension fare as you’d capped for 1-2)

    Total £18.70.

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