Erith (Bexley) to Liverpool Street: does the EL count as NR when convenient?

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  • #5284

    I was playing around with finding fares for London and [this site’s amazing explanation](, and I think I found a mistake in it.

    Going from Erith (Zone 6, served by Southeastern trains) to Liverpool Street (Zone 1) [shows two prices](!fares?orig=NRERH&dest=LULVT):
    * Peak £9.40, equivalent to NR-T by taking the Southeastern train to London Bridge then the Northern Line to Moorgate, and then walking or taking the Circle Line to Liverpool Street.
    * Peak £7.70, equivalent to the NR fare, by taking the Southeastern Train one station to Abbey Wood and then the Elizabeth Line to Liverpool Street.

    According to the map, the second price is a change from red to purple which should put it in NR-T. Since the real price is NR, I think it’s a mistake and that the purple parts of the Elizabeth Line counts as NR when convenient.

    • This topic was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by Mike.

    Hi Krel,

    There is no error, but there are a lot of unintended consequences going on behind the scenes.

    Firstly you have to go way back to the early days of Oyster PAYG and a success story for this site. I discovered that Crayford to Alexandra Palace was always a mixed (NR-T) fare. It was possible to travel using only NR services by changing at New Cross and Highbury & Islington, but that didn’t have a fare defined. Then I discovered that NR had a paper ticket fare for the journey which wasn’t valid on the Underground and therefore cheaper. I queried this with TfL and persuaded them to change the default fare to NR only. As a result, fares from SE London to stations between Moorgate and Hadley Wood/Crews Hill were amended to default to NR only.

    Fast Forward to the opening of the Elizabeth line and Liverpool Street LU station was joined to Moorgate as one station. This meant that someone arriving at Moorgate could legitimately walk to Liverpool Street and exit there. So the fares to both Liverpool Street LU and Moorgate were combined with the cheapest fare prevailing in each case.

    Another issue that causes confusion is that there are two ways to travel between Abbey Wood and Farringdon. One uses the EL while the other is NR. Both are direct trains so there is no way to tell which way the passenger went.


    This is amazing. Thanks!

    By the way, thank you so much for creating the site. I spent a lot of free time having fun with different trip combinations, and it’s nice knowing the absolute mess that happens under the hood or TFL.

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