Overground (ELL) to Liverpool Street

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    On the journey Forest Hill [FOH] (NR) 3 to Liverpool Street (LU, EL) 1
    The default peak price is shown as £4.20, requiring validation at Canada Water, Shadwell or Whitechapel for the lower price of £3.70.

    Then, of course there’s £6.00 if changing between NR and LU.

    What possible route can explain £4.20? Any route I can think of changes at Canada Water/Shadwell /Whitechapel or changes between NR and LU at London Bridge or Victoria (or Blackfriars, Cannon Street, Charing Cross, Waterloo or Waterloo East) or Balham.


    That will be Overground to Highbury & Islington, then GTR to Moorgate and exit via the Elizabeth line station to Liverpool Street.

    Since the Elizabeth line opened anything valid at Moorgate is also valid at Liverpool Street LU and vice-versa. The GTR bit is the reason for the higher NR only fare.

    Si Hollett

    The line between Moorgate and Highbury & Islington is surely charged at the TfL-LU fare (same as Forest Hill – Highbury & Islington) and thus doesn’t invoke the NR-only fare? ie if you touch the pink reader at H&I it would be the same as Canada Water or Whitechapel (and presumably if you use the OSI at Shadwell?).

    The NR-only fare seems like change at London Bridge onto Thameslink, change at Farringdon and arrive at Moorgate (with Farringdon – Moorgate possibly still having a residual NR route for fares even though the line closed) and leave via Liverpool Street gatelines.


    You might be right, Si. Either way it is a complete mess with so many different routes without needing to exit a gateline.

    Michael Tsang

    The default route is assumed to be Southern to London Bridge, Thameslink to Farringdon and Tube to Moorgate (this stretch of tube line is dual-scaled).

    Mike (admin)

    Yeah, that makes sense. Can’t think why I was blinded to that option.


    Is this the routing that Southern (the government) have cut and LO was looking to potentially adopt, however unlikely that seems?

    If so, does the default route still make sense as a default in light of whatever the current service pattern is?

    (If this isn’t that route, the question probably doesn’t make sense)

    Martin Phillp

    The current service pattern since the pandemic is 2tph from Forest Hill to London Bridge on Southern.

    The majority of services from Forest Hill are 8tph to Highbury and Islington (4tph each from West Croydon and Crystal Palace), so I’d expect most passengers commuting to Liverpool Street/Moorgate change at Whitechapel for the Elizabeth or H&C services.

    Moorgate is also possible by changing at Highbury & Islington for Great Northern.


    Hi Feathers,

    Yes, that is the route. I’m not sure how quickly LO are going to be able to run services. Even if they do, it would depend on whether they are allowed to alter the fare charged between New Cross Gate and London Bridge.

    Martin Phillp

    Another pink reader touch required to commute to Farringdon where the default fare from Forest Hill is the NR fare via London Bridge rather than using LO/EL via Whitechapel.

    I must remember when I go there next week to touch the pink reader at Whitechapel otherwise it’s £3.30 off-peak instead of £3.

    I remember commuting there a decade back when the NR single fare on Oyster was cheaper than the TfL/LU mode using LO/H&C, but clearly that’s changed.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Martin Phillp.
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