Hi Michael,

There are fewer scales when it comes to extension fares, so you’ve been charged at the TfL-LU rate. You’d only be charged more if the journey was on the NR or NR-T scales.

Adding to what Feathers said, I think most people in Vauxhall wanting Putney would use National Rail as it’s one train and reasonably frequent. As to your comment about £2.80 vs £1.90, that is indeed the consequence of using National Rail as part of the journey.

I’m very much in agreement, Michael. Signage at many stations leaves a lot to be desired. I’m not convinced different readers for entry and exit would work necessarily. It would be another chance for things to go wrong if someone didn’t have time or space to read the labels. It would work where there are clear lanes for each direction, but that just isn’t the case in most places in London. Also, prominent signage can be an issue in crowds where there isn’t enough room.

However, this particular situation is a serious issue, given that people could be reported for prosecution after doing the right thing. TfL are aware and I hope to have a swift update.

Thanks Feathers, Hi Michael,

Yes to (a). If there is a TfL bus nearby then touching in on that will close the earlier rail journey. As you have a travelcard the bus won’t be charged.

Otherwise, if you touch a validator within the maximum journey time from the start of the open journey it will be treated as the end of that journey and charged accordingly.

Hi Alan,

I haven’t got a definitive answer, but I’d be amazed if the decision wasn’t made at time of touch in in both cases. Indeed the night tube probably inherits maximum journey time from the previous evening unless you touch in after 0430.

Hi BadenBaden,

If you travel from Gatwick to London and then jaunt around zones 1-2 then the most you’ll pay is the zone 1-2 cap (£8.10) plus the single fare from Gatwick. So £17.60. It might be fractionally lower, but that’s the most.

If you haven’t got much luggage and don’t mind going up and down a ramp at East Croydon then that can be reduced to Gatwick to East Croydon* £3.70, zone 3-5 extension* £3.00 and the zone 1-2 cap of £8.10, total £14.80. You just need to get out at East Croydon, touch out and back in again, then get the next train to London. *Note that slightly higher fares apply between 1600-1900 from Gatwick.

Hi YearOfTheBusOyster,

Sadly there are a lot of misconceptions in this post, some from TfL staff who really ought to know better.

So, the first thing to point out is that only adult Oyster cards with no discount entitlement go through the back office process overnight. This means that you won’t get a refund, sadly. It also means that sometimes it is cheaper to get a normal ticket with the railcard.

Helpline staff really ought to be aware that both Oyster and contactless charge extension fares, albeit that the Oyster ones are only calculated overnight. They also ought to know that Grays is not in zone 9 and that the caps are more expensive.

I can, however, explain how the charges were arrived at.

The first £6 counted towards the Anytime cap only.
The 2x £1.75 counted towards the Anytime and off-peak caps (and the bus cap, though that’s irrelevant here).
At this point the Anytime total was £9.50, just short of the £9.60 Anytime cap.
The £9.60 counted towards the Anytime and off-peak caps, but now they are the Grays ones of £28.60 and £14.05.
Finally the 95p took the off-peak travel up to £14.05 which was the off-peak cap.

I hope this helps a bit.

Thanks for that. I’m not surprised they couldn’t work out what was happening. I’m not sure I know why the evening maximum fare was only £4.80 because it’s usually £6.40 off-peak. I also think the touch on the validator at Farringdon may be confusing things because that should have been part of the main journey. Anyway, you are correct that you should have been capped, so just ask them to refund the rest down to the cap.

Moving forward, you don’t need to touch the validators when changing at Farringdon if you are making a PAYG journey. They only need to be used if the Thaneslink journey is using a paper ticket and you are starting/ending a PAYG journey at Farringdon. The signage is awful in that respect.

I hope you get it sorted out.

Edit. I’ve just noticed you spent 9 minutes at Farringdon, so probably went out of the gates, but if you are just changing and don’t need to go through both sets of gates then you don’t need to touch.

• This reply was modified 1 month, 4 weeks ago by Mike (admin).

Hi Michael,

If this was today (August 1st) then I’d check again on your full account tomorrow. Fortunately you haven’t committed an offence because you held a valid travelcard and an extension ticket. It’s possible that the gate was faulty, or that it hasn’t uploaded it’s touches straight away.

If the touch in doesn’t appear tomorrow then it’s up to you whether you report this to the helpline. You’ll neither have been overcharged nor undercharged, so it’ll just be to report a curiosity.

Hi Aron,

This is an interesting question.

The pink validator in this case is designed to demonstrate that you have avoided zones 1-2. If you are simply making that journey there and back then there is a saving to be made by touching the pink validator. However, if you have already used zones 1-4 and capped then touching the pink validator at Rayners Lane will charge you for going into zone 5.

The rules say that you should touch a pink reader if you pass one to ensure that you pay the correct fare. The only penalty for not touching one is that you will be charged the higher fare. In your case you are happy to pay the zone 1-4 fare because you have already capped. I don’t see a problem ignoring the pink validators in this instance.

Indeed. We’ve already seen some reporting suggesting that pay as you go will be the cheapest method, which it isn’t guaranteed to be. The BBC even suggested the whole thing was starting the day of the announcement. I can certainly see lots of problems ahead.

If the whole journey you are making includes NR elements, then any extension fare will be at the NR scale, even if the extension is not on NR services. If there was another way I’d tell you.

As for using Whitechapel or Canada Water rather than London Bridge, I don’t know but it may well be a similar time. There are more ELL trains at Penge West than Southern and you have extra services joining at Sydenham. My best advice is to try it out.

That’s very interesting. Thank you.