Hi Phil,

Can you provide further details, please. The rough time you touched out and in again, plus your journey history as it currently shows. TfL can’t see a fault at the moment.

Thanks in advance.

Hi Richard,

Thanks for this. It is indeed a shocking reply from the MD, however, the act of passing the details to the revenue team will almost certainly have resulted in a cordial meeting to refocus the mind of the MD.

Do let me know if you have any further issues.

Apologies, I missed this thread originally.

The Euston (LU) fare is an error, it should be £11.90. It’s unlikely to get corrected before next March though.

Returning from Leipzig in Germany. They did, but it didn’t make sense. Will chase again shortly.

Hi Colin,

I added a comment to a post on Nextdoor about this very query, though I can’t now find it. Was it you asking originally?

Looking at your questions, have you tried the fare finder on this site? That tells you which zones are covered for every Oyster journey (and some older contactless only ones too). Within zones 1-9 there are a number of fare scales, although only 3 relate to journeys south of the river. Overground is counted as National Rail if the whole journey is on National Rail, but it’s also counted as TfL if the whole journey is on TfL operated routes (or those like c2c which use Underground fares). The late adopting NR routes (Jan 2010) charge their own scale if any of the journey is one one of those routes. Additionally there is a mixed mode premium charged on top of the NR rate if the journey goes into zone 1, whether or not the TfL bit was in zone 1 or not. The Elizabeth line is more complicated. The core section between Paddington and Abbey Wood is treated like a tube line when combined with older NR routes, but the bits to Brentwood and West Drayton are also National Rail.

So, Plumstead to Greenwich to Lewisham is the same fare as Plumstead to Lewisham via Blackheath. When you start at Brixton LU you are already on LU and to get to Plumstead is defined as going through zone 1. It is possible to avoid zone 1 (Brixton – Stockwell – Clapham North (walk) Clapham High Street – Peckham Rye – Lewisham – Plumstead) but I guess that is deemed too many changes so no-one would do it. From Brixton NR you can go Brixton – Kent House (walk) Clock House – Lewisham – Plumstead, and I think that is likely to be the default route.

Sorry, I get you now. Yes, Epsom and Cuffley are the two where contactless caps are both higher.

Yes, in very limited cases. I’m waiting for feedback from GTR at the moment and will soon be publishing full details. There are 12 stations involved and in almost every case the contactless cap is cheaper. Epsom is by far the most affected, along with Cuffley to a slightly lesser extent. Watch this site/space.

Hi Michael,

The answer is shown on the fare finder when searching for a fare with Epsom at the outer end. The contactless daily caps are more expensive.

Well, that’s an interesting development. I would imagine Cuffley will go the same way at some point, although more people probably use Epsom than Cuffley.

Both stations are part of a growing list of places where there are different caps applied when using contactless compared to Oyster. If you use an Oyster card to these places then you will be capped at the Oyster zonal rate (not always zone 9) because that’s all Oyster can do. The adult fares get put through the back office later, but I’m assured that it won’t retrospectively increase the charge. However, when using contactless you will be subject to the contactless caps (which aren’t always more expensive).

This is a consequence of the political desire to expand Oyster to places where the cap structure did not match the travelcard prices already in place. When they finally get round to allowing discounts on contactless PAYG I fully expect Oyster to be discontinued at those places.

I think I need to look at documenting the arrangemnets at these dual-capped stations shortly.

Hi Daniel,

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. It will be an unexpected consequence of the fares freeze which wasn’t allowed to include Underground set fares. The lines out of Liverpool Street, especially beyond zone 6, have additional considerations as part of the deal to allow TfL to take over those services from Greater Anglia.

We’re still under 2 months from the fares revision, so it’s possible that no-one has yet noticed. I’d imagine that most people on Underground set fares are resigned to the fact that the fares freeze doesn’t apply to them. I’m a little surprised that MPs in affected constituencies haven’t kicked up more of a fuss, but perhaps they just don’t realise.

Sadly there are lots of routes that journey planners will suggest which don’t necessarily take account of programmed interchanges. There are no direct trains between Euston NR and St Pancras NR, and as someone making that transition would need to use two OSIs with plenty of internal walking, I imagine that it was requested by ATOC in the run up to Oyster extending to all NR routes. They also requested Marylebone NR to Paddington NR which is almost never used. There are also no direct trains between Aldgate and Aldgate East unless you count a Circle line train which turns into a District or Ham&City train at Edgware Road.

Finally, Richmond to Clapham Junction is quite frequent and some of the services are limited stop, Clapham Junction to East Croydon has plenty of non-stop services, so I’m not surprised that the route sometimes turns out to be quicker.

Hi Michael,

So, the zones 1-5 off-peak railcard cap is £10.15, as you found out on the 11th. If you have capped at £6.95 for zones 1-3, the most you will be charged extra is £3.20. You are correct that breaking the OSI did save you 30p, but the cap would have prevented the full £4.15 mixed mode fare being charged from either Seven Sisters or Ravenscourt Park. You could also touch on a bus at Victoria which would be free as you had capped and would also have broken the OSI. Unless you are certain that you won’t travel again I wouldn’t recommend using a different card because you lose the protection of the cap.

In the case of Ravenscourt Park you could have changed at Earls Court, West Brompton and Clapham Junction for a cheaper zone 2-5 fare of £2.45. You might even have got the direct Southern service from West Brompton to East Croydon.

As for the £1.00 refund, I have no clue. If it had been £0.95 then I’d think it could be the difference between the full fare from Victoria and the extension fare from boundary zone 3. However, I don’t think that discounted Oyster cards are put through the back office overnight, yet. You’ll have to ask the helpdesk and see if they can explain it.