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The TfL single fare finder says the cheapest fare (from Brixton NR) is £3.20 (£4 peak), but also proffers an NR only fare via zone 1 (£4/£5.30) and an LU/NR fare via zone 1 of £5.30 / £7.90. This last fare is the same as Brixton LU – Plumstead, suggesting that’s a via zone 1 fare whatever the route.
The fare finder doesn’t give any clues as to what route to take to achieve that lowest fare and I don’t think it’s possible to tell their journey planner to avoid zone 1. I tried Google but the AI said get a SE train from Brixton to Peckham Rye, which is impossible as far as I can tell.
Thinking about this also makes we wonder whether DLR counts as LU for these purposes and whether if one used non TfL lines and LO that would lead to a higher fare (LO counting as Underground in effect) or whether LO would count as NR here so that the cheapest fare could be achieved even if LO was used. Again the fare finder doesn’t help much, but I know when TfL refers to NR it means the non TfL bits of NR (ie not LO or Lizzie line)
Hi Colin,
I added a comment to a post on Nextdoor about this very query, though I can’t now find it. Was it you asking originally?
Looking at your questions, have you tried the fare finder on this site? That tells you which zones are covered for every Oyster journey (and some older contactless only ones too). Within zones 1-9 there are a number of fare scales, although only 3 relate to journeys south of the river. Overground is counted as National Rail if the whole journey is on National Rail, but it’s also counted as TfL if the whole journey is on TfL operated routes (or those like c2c which use Underground fares). The late adopting NR routes (Jan 2010) charge their own scale if any of the journey is one one of those routes. Additionally there is a mixed mode premium charged on top of the NR rate if the journey goes into zone 1, whether or not the TfL bit was in zone 1 or not. The Elizabeth line is more complicated. The core section between Paddington and Abbey Wood is treated like a tube line when combined with older NR routes, but the bits to Brentwood and West Drayton are also National Rail.
So, Plumstead to Greenwich to Lewisham is the same fare as Plumstead to Lewisham via Blackheath. When you start at Brixton LU you are already on LU and to get to Plumstead is defined as going through zone 1. It is possible to avoid zone 1 (Brixton – Stockwell – Clapham North (walk) Clapham High Street – Peckham Rye – Lewisham – Plumstead) but I guess that is deemed too many changes so no-one would do it. From Brixton NR you can go Brixton – Kent House (walk) Clock House – Lewisham – Plumstead, and I think that is likely to be the default route.
Thanks. Plumstead – Greenwich – Lewisham looks like it can only be done using DLR for the last bit. I assume DLR would count as LU for these purposes.
Hey, I know I wasn’t involved in this conversation but I have to ask this as it has confused me:
How can Plumstead to Lewisham using only Southeastern cost the same as Plumstead to Lewisham when going Southeastern to Greenwich and then DLR to Lewisham? How can this be? Solely using NR is always cheaper than NR + Underground/DLR right?
Hi JR,
Through fares using both old NR and LU/DLR are only more expensive if the journey includes travel in zone 1. If not, the same fares as just old NR are charged. Old means late adopting routes that joined in Jan 2010 (eg Southeastern) as opposed to routes that charged TfL fares before then (eg c2c).
Right, I see! So you’re saying that the ‘NR-T’ fare category only EVER applies on journeys that include zone 1? If so then I didn’t see this on the ‘NR-T’ part of the table on your ‘Fares Guide & Tables’ page?
I hadn’t seen that guide with the map until now. That’s very good! The map shows Watford High St where i think Watford Junction should be …
Right, I see! So you’re saying that the ‘NR-T’ fare category only EVER applies on journeys that include zone 1? If so then I didn’t see this on the ‘NR-T’ part of the table on your ‘Fares Guide & Tables’ page?
I’m saying that the NR-T fares are the same as NR if the journey doesn’t involve zone 1.
I hadn’t seen that guide with the map until now. That’s very good! The map shows Watford High St where i think Watford Junction should be …
The map is specifically zones 1-9 and Watford Junction is outside that area.
The map shows special fares applying to the Heathrow branch of the Liz line (pale green), but the table of fare scales says “EL (Heathrow/West Drayton-Abbey Wood and Liverpool Street-Stratford only)” under TfL-LU.
This doesn’t seem consistent, although I have probably misunderstood.
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