*** Note: This article only refers to fares from certain stations beyond zones 1-9. Oyster is NOT affected ***
Thanks to a visitor to the Rail Forums website, a quite serious problem with fares to and from Walthamstow Central has been uncovered. Until last year the fares from anywhere accepting PAYG to Walthamstow Central were the same regardless of whether you used the Underground or National Rail (Overground) there. However, the new stations being added under Project Oval are getting their fares data entered directly by the train companies, and they are entering fares for both the Underground station and the National Rail station as if they were separate. In most cases the fares are the same, but for 26 stations there are differences of up to £7.60.
The diagram below shows the layout of the above ground station and the access points to the Underground station below. There are gates at the entrances to platforms 1 and 2 which are both treated as being the National Rail station, and gates under the bus station access which are treated as being the Underground station. You can freely walk between either National Rail platform and either Underground platform without having to leave the paid area. It is in effect just one station.
Clearly anyone wanting to go somewhere to the south of the station is not going to want to exit into the bus station and have to walk all the way round, yet in some cases that could cost (or save) a lot of money. While most of the differences mean that National Rail costs more, some are the other way, and a few differ between whether a peak or off-peak fare is being charged. Yes, it absolutely is that mad.
The table below lists the 26 stations with different fares and indicates which entrance/exit should be used to get the cheaper fare and how much can be saved by using the right gates. Peak fares are charged if you start your journey between 0630-0930 on weekdays (and sometimes between 1600-1900 as well – check the fare finder to be sure). If your journey is TO Walthamstow Central then it is the time that you touch in at your start station that matters.
| Underground | Peak Gate | Peak Saving | Off-peak Gate | Off-peak Saving |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Apsley (NR) | LU | £1.00 | LU | £1.10 |
| Bat & Ball (NR) | NR | £2.10 | NR | £0.80 |
| Beaconsfield (NR) | LU | £6.60 | LU | £4.70 |
| Berkhamsted (NR) | NR | £0.60 | NR | £0.40 |
| Bletchley (NR) | LU | £7.60 | LU | £6.70 |
| Bricket Wood (NR) | LU | £0.60 | LU | £1.40 |
| Cheddington (NR) | NR | £1.40 | LU | £1.30 |
| Denham (NR) | LU | £4.10 | LU | £3.70 |
| Denham Golf Club (NR) | LU | £4.60 | LU | £3.30 |
| Dunton Green (NR) | NR | £1.60 | LU | £0.20 |
| Eynsford (NR) | LU | £3.40 | LU | £2.70 |
| Garston (NR) | LU | £0.40 | NR | £0.50 |
| Gerrards Cross (NR) | LU | £4.90 | LU | £5.20 |
| Hemel Hempstead (NR) | LU | £0.30 | LU | £0.60 |
| High Wycombe (NR) | LU | £5.20 | LU | £5.50 |
| How Wood (NR) | LU | £0.60 | LU | £1.40 |
| Kings Langley (NR) | NR | £0.30 | NR | £1.10 |
| Leighton Buzzard (NR) | LU | £0.20 | LU | £4.20 |
| Otford (NR) | NR | £2.10 | NR | £0.80 |
| Park Street (NR) | LU | £0.60 | LU | £1.40 |
| Seer Green & Jordans (NR) | LU | £5.00 | LU | £4.20 |
| Sevenoaks (NR) | NR | £2.10 | NR | £0.80 |
| Shoreham Kent (NR) | NR | £1.30 | NR | £0.50 |
| St Albans Abbey (NR) | LU | £0.40 | LU | £1.10 |
| Tring (NR) | NR | £0.90 | LU | £1.50 |
| Watford North (NR) | LU | £0.40 | NR | £0.40 |
Edit 30/7/2025: Gremlins reversed the suggested gatelines in the first version of the table, now correct.
I have reached out to both TfL and the Rail Delivery Group for comments. Hopefully the station will again be treated as one station, although that may not happen until the fares revision in September. Capping means that in some cases there will be no overcharge if a return journey is made in the same day.
The fare finder on this site displays the fares for the Underground station; I will look to do a workaround for this situation without breaking the fact that within the zones there are no fares defined to the National Rail station. Watch this space.
For the examples from Chiltern stations, it looks like the lower prices would only be charged if you changed onto the Central Line at West Ruislip or South Ruislip.
If you touch out ot Marylebone, the higher price would be charged whether you take the tube all the way or switch to London Overground at Liverpool Street
This is another confusing thing about Oval routes. The alternative is described as via Zone 1/London Terminals. Are they really saying that to go from High Wycombe to Walthamstow Central cheaply you have to change at Ruislip, Shepherd’s Bush, Highbury & Islington and Finsbury Park?
It could be done with just two changes: One of the Ruislips and Oxford Circus.
As there’d be no intermediate validation, the default (cheaper) fare would apply even though you’re travelling through Zone 1.
This is, of course, nonsensical, but the fares can be found on BRFares by putting Zone U1256 (NLC 0786) as the destination. They’re routed “via Northolt.”
Just to be clear, in this instance are we saying that Marylebone is a London Terminal but Liverpool Street is not?
No. The combination of the Central + Victoria Lines to Walthamstow Central LU should result in the cheaper fare being charged…but only if you exit to the bus station, avoiding the NR gateline.
At least I don’t think you can exit to Station Approach or the other side of Selborne Road without passing through the NR gateline. It’s been a while since I’ve been there.
I went there on Sunday evening. There are only 3 gatelines now, 2NR and 1LU.
So, High Wycombe – West Ruislip – Oxford Circus – Walthamstow Central LU is default.
High Wycombe – Marylebone NR – LU – Oxford Circus – Walthamstow Central LU is alternative.
High Wycombe – West Ruislip – Liverpool Street LU – NR – Walthamstow Central LU is which?
In all cases exit is to the bus station.
Logically you should be charged the via Zone 1 fare.
Could take until March next year for TOCs to fix such issues though, depending on whether they were noticed in time for September or not.