Charged same station exit at Waterloo LU and then maximum fare at Bank LU

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  • #4086
    Emmet Clark
    Participant

    Had a weird experience in Waterloo LU recently. Entered Waterloo LU from one of the streets to go to Bank LU via Waterloo City Line. The entry to the Waterloo LU station was properly recorded by the entry gate.

    But then I followed the signs at the Waterloo LU station for the Waterloo City line which led me through another set of entry gates. This is where trouble began. The entry gate had a clear green arrow sign confirming it is an entry gate. I touch in at this gate but I was charged a same station exit fare of £2.50.

    After this glitch, I did reach the Waterloo City line’s platform. Took the Waterloo City line train to Bank LU. When I touched out to exit Bank LU, I was charged a maximum fare of £6.00. Checked my Oyster card on a Oyster machine nearby and it said that at Bank LU I was charged a maximum fare due to “no touch in”.

    What did I do wrong at the Waterloo LU station? I think I just followed the signs everywhere and it made me go through two entry gates to reach the Waterloo City line from the street level. Yet I was charged a same-station exit fee there and everything went wrong from there. What should I do differently next time I have to make the same trip?

    • This topic was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Emmet Clark.
    #4088
    Chris Hein
    Participant

    Did you tap in at the reader at Waterloo at the top of the stairs before you go down to the Waterloo and City line?

    I’ve missed this one myself and like you got caught for a max fare at Bank even though I’d tapped all the readers on my journey I had missed the important one at the top of the stairs.

    Tfl were great and refunded it without issue.

    #4089
    Emmet Clark
    Participant

    Thanks Chris! Glad you got a refund. May I ask how I could apply for a refund?

    #4090
    Emmet Clark
    Participant

    Chris, No I did not tap the reader at the top of the stairs. Did not know there was one. That must be why I got charged!

    #4091
    Mike (admin)
    Keymaster

    Hi Emmet, (and thanks Chris)

    Waterloo station is a real mess with several gatelines where it is not obvious what you are doing.

    The first thing I need to clarify is what the green arrow means. It doesn’t mean ‘Entry’ but rather that the gate in front of you is set in the direction you are walking. That could be either ‘Entry’ or ‘Exit’.

    Next up is the fact that Waterloo LU station is actually three different stations in one. You have the Waterloo and City line station which is connected easily to all the mainline station platforms. The problem here is that there isn’t room to put a gateline on the passageway to the actual platforms, so as Chris says, there are a couple of validators which aren’t brilliantly signed. This is what you should have touched which would have cancelled your same station exit and started a new journey.

    From that area you then move along to the original Underground station serving the Bakerloo and Northern lines. You will go through gates there which I think is where you exited and got the same station exit. Also from that part of the station is a travelator taking you to the Jubilee line station and the entrances at the colonade.

    In summary, I think you entered at the Jubilee line through the colonade, went down and along the travelator to the Bakerloo and Northern section, exited again and then went down to the Waterloo and City without touching the validators to put you back inside the system. Then at Bank you exited when not in the system hence the maximum journey charge. Chris is right about the resolution too; just call the helpdesk and explain that you got thouroughly confused at Waterloo when travelling to Bank. They’ll quickly check your journeys and arrange to refund the maximum fare.

    In future I’d go into the mainline station from the street and then use the entrance to the Underground near platforms 17 and 18. Follow the signs for the Waterloo and City line there, but look out for the validators and touch one before going down to the actual platforms.

    #4092
    Emmet Clark
    Participant

    Thanks Mike for the detailed explanation. I will call the helpdesk for a refund. Now I know what to look for in Waterloo station the next time I travel via it.

    #4099
    Mike (admin)
    Keymaster

    OK, my son (who lived near Waterloo for a year) and I went up there a few days ago so I can now offer a more comprehensive answer. If you enter from Waterloo Road through the colonade then there are three ways you can go. Straight ahead on the left are escalators up to the mainline station opposite platforms 3-4. To the right of those escalators is the Jubilee line ticket hall with escalators going down after you’ve been through gates. As you look at those gates from near the NR escalators there is a set of steps up to a balcony which is signposted for the Waterloo and City line. Follow the signs after climbing the steps and you’ll get there quite quickly.

    The only other street entrance to the Underground that we are aware of is in York Road where the Shell Centre is. If you use that entrance then you will have to enter through gates and exit again before getting to the Waterloo and City platforms. So instead of using that entrance we recommend going into the mainline station and using the Underground entrance next to platform 19, as previously suggested.

    #4153
    C
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    I think I have recently been overcharged for a journey involving a change to the Waterloo and City line.

    I’ve been charged £4.50 for a weekday evening trip from Bond Street to South Quay and it would have been more if I hadn’t hit the daily cap.

    I traveled from Bond Street to Waterloo on the Jubilee line then got off the Jubilee line due to delays and changed to the Waterloo and City line to Bank and then the DLR to South Quay. At Waterloo I tapped out at the gates and back in on the validators 2 minutes later.

    Journey history is showing this as a single journey so I can’t understand why I would be charged more than £3.20.

    Have you got any idea what might have happened here?

    #4154
    Mike
    Moderator

    Hi C,

    Can you cut and paste the expanded journey history for your trip please? There are two fares for Bond Street to South Quay; the £3.20 you were expecting and another at £5.00 if you use National Rail at Waterloo. I’d like to see what stations the history thinks you touched at.

    If, as seems likely, it was out and in at Waterloo LU then you’ve hit an issue with the fare logic. The helpdesk should refund you if you state what happened.

    I’m pretty sure I know what has happened, but I’d like your history so I can take it up with appropriate people in TfL.

    #4155
    C
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    Thanks for your help, it’s not letting me paste the image of my journey history into my reply but you can see the text below shows Waterloo (London Underground) for both touches.

    Fare for this journey: £4.50
    Please note
    This journey was cheaper or free today because you reached an All Services Daily cap.

    More about capping
    18:49
    Bond Street

    19:02
    Waterloo (London Underground)

    19:04
    Waterloo (London Underground)

    19:30
    South Quay

    #4158
    Mike
    Moderator

    OK, thanks for this. Have you called the helpdesk? Please let me know if you have any difficulty getting a refund.

    #4159
    C
    Participant

    No luck with the helpdesk, they assured me the correct fare had been charged. I don’t think it’s worth me chasing them any further for the small amount involved. I’m more interested in hearing that TfL fix this so it doesn’t keep happening.

    #4160
    Mike
    Moderator

    I’ll email my contact at TfL shortly and include the fact that the helpdesk refused to refund you.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by Mike (admin).
    #4167
    C
    Participant

    Thanks for your help Mike, I tried the helpdesk again. Initial response was that I had been charged correctly “as I traveled through zone 1” but after again pointing out that I didn’t travel on National Rail they agreed to process a refund and said they would raise it as a bug.

    #4168
    Mike
    Moderator

    Good news. Thanks for letting us know.

    #4359
    jjcantab
    Participant

    I have experienced a similar situation to what Emmett wrote about recently at Waterloo. It seems things have changed at the station recently, perhaps due to the new shopping concourse where the Eurostar terminal was (called the “Sidings” apparently).

    I usually commute home from Bank via Waterloo to Barnes Bridge. I’ve noticed on the past two trips I’ve been charged for two separate journeys rather than the Oyster system recognising my journey as a single trip — thankfully TfL have refunded me the overcharge, but it’s a hassle having to request this. I wonder how many people don’t notice this in their journey history!

    My tapping behaviour:
    (1) In at Bank
    (2) Out of the tube in the hallway leaving Bank (no barrier)
    (3) Barrier one – entering the first National Rail area (under tracks 1-19)
    (4) Barrier two – entering the shopping concourse
    (5) Barrier three – back to National Rail (tracks 20+), after the escalators from the shopping concourse

    Does anyone know a better way to do this? Am I meant to avoid steps 3-4 above? (TfL over the phone isn’t very helpful about this.) It was convenient to use the subterranean passage to go between Bank and the outer tracks of Waterloo in the past…but now am I meant to go upstairs from Bank first, through the crowded main part of the station, to get to tracks 20+?

    Here is the way the journey looks in my Oyster journey history:

    BanktoWaterloo (London Underground) £2.50
    18:22 – 18:27
    Waterloo (National Rail)toWaterloo (National Rail) £0.00
    18:28 – 18:29
    Waterloo (National Rail)toBarnes Bridge £4.00
    18:30 – 18:59

    #4360
    Mike (admin)
    Keymaster

    Hi jjcantab,

    I’ll raise this as an issue. It looks like they need to add another OSI at Waterloo to cope with what you are experiencing. For now my advice is to avoid steps 3 and 4 and I’m sure the journey will be charged correctly.

    #4361
    jjcantab
    Participant

    Mike,
    Thank you for raising it – in the meantime I will go the long way!

    Probably not what was intended when they put in the new shopping area —- imagine they’d rather have more foot traffic rather than less from those who don’t want to be overcharged on their contactless cards!

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