TFL and National Rail planner show different fares

Hi,

Can you give me a link to where you’re seeing those National Rail fares. As far as contactless is concerned there is no difference between GWR and EL. The fares shown in fare finders driven by TfL open data are the ones that you should be charged by the PAYG system.

Thanks for those links.

The first point to note is that fares on the line to Reading and associated branches were set before Project Oval. This means that the fares data sent to TfL does not come directly from the NR fares database. It looks like GWR have increased some of the off-peak fares but this hasn’t been reflected in the TfL database. This was probably at the September fares change where off-peak caps were all increased by GWR. I’m confident that the fare shown by the fare finder is what will be charged.

The Marlow issue is slightly different because the £22.00 fare is not tagged as being based on the contactless fare. I don’t know why the NR journey planner is not using the contactless fare when a fast train is being used. I’ll ask the question.

For the Richmond-Slough journey I think you are expected to take the district line to Ealing Broadway, changing at Turnham Green, and then get the Elizabeth Line to Slough.

Looking at the fares from Twickenham to Slough provided that hint as to the route it expects.

This has opened up a huge can of worms.

The first thing to note is that there is no difference between fares from Richmond Underground and Richmond (London) Rail stations. It’s all one station but TfL have this obsession with showing multiple instances of stations if they have more than one mode.

The next thing is that there is no out-of-station interchange in Windsor. So far none have been set up beyond zone 6, although issues with intermediate gatelines mean that we should see internal OSIs at Stevenage and Welwyn Garden City soon. This explains why your via Windsor journey was split into two – it was actually two journeys according to TfL.

West Drayton to Reading and branches were the last contactless extensions set up before project Oval, as I mentioned above, while Feltham to Windsor is very much part of Oval. However, given that there is no OSI in Windsor we can say that fares between Richmond and Slough are set up differently and there’s a reasonable chance that National Rail and TfL won’t show the same fare.

We can get some clues by looking at my fare finder (driven by TfL open data) because I add zonal coverage for journeys set up before Oval. The default route for Richmond to Slough is zones 3-16 which as suggested means District via Turnham Green to Ealing Broadway. The alternative routes involve taking SWR to South London terminals or Vauxhall or Queenstown Road Battersea and then taking various Underground lines to Paddington. Note that the change between Underground and National Rail at Paddington does not trigger the alternative route, which leads us onto …

About that can of worms. The National Rail journey planner thinks Richmond to Willesden Junction on Overground, then Overground/Bakerloo to Paddington with an optional change at Queens Park, then GWR to Slough is the second best option after Windsor. Because the OSI between Paddington LU and Paddington NR is not used in the fare setting, the fare charged will be the default fare. Indeed, it’s possible to do it without passing through a gateline because the Bakerloo line and Elizabeth line stations at Paddington are linked inside the paid area.

In summary, I’ve no idea where National Rail is getting the £9.70 fare from. You will be charged according to the TfL driven fare finders either £10.20 via South London terminals, £8.70 if you make two journeys via Windsor, or £4.50 via any other route (but don’t leave the PAYG area via Ascot and Reading).

TfL are not as to blame as you seem to make out. Fares beyond West Drayton are set by GWR. This March it is the fares within zones 1-6 which will rise as the NR (GWR) set fares are all frozen. If GWR/SWR asked for an OSI at Windsor and priced fares accordingly then TfL would set it up. Travelcards with validity in zone 6 are available to use on the Elizabeth line trains to Heathrow. That is how people making a return journey aren’t penalised with the fare grab being aimed at tourists making a single journey.

Now that the new revenue contract has been settled I am hopeful that we’ll finally get some movement on discounts with contactless. As I understand it, the main sticking point is NR needing to know that a railcard is attached so they can ask to see it. Adding an extra list to the inspection devices makes it not an off-the-shelf blacklist/whitelist application, and clearly nothing can be written to the bank card.

I’ll not offer any defence on delay repay, other than it will have been agreed with the DfT when signing the contracts.