Using contactless/Oyster and 60+ card for a single journey

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  • #3728
    Colin Newman
    Participant

    I was travelling home from Rye House where, as I’m sure you know, PAYG and contactless reaches but the 60+ card doesn’t. I was heading home via Tottenham Hale and Blackhorse Road for the GOBLIN. I concluded I needed a ticket to Enfield Lock, the machine that is £6.90 but also that it’s only £2.90 on PAYG/contactless*. Unwilling to pay £4 for basically nothing I swiped my payment card, but for the rest of the journey I swiped my 60+ card.

    Getting off the train at Enfield Lock to swipe out and getting back on the same train didn’t seem doable as I don’t know exactly where the readers are. I obviously will have paid the maximum fare, but am I entitled to a refund?

    Logically a way round this would be for me to pay the machine £2.90 and the machine to ‘write’ an extension on my 60+ Oyster Card, but I’m guessing that’s technically impossible.

    Is there any way of getting the £2.90 fare in these circumstances?

    * I realised I could have paid to Cheshunt and used LO to Seven Sister for S Tottenham

    #3730
    Mike
    Moderator

    Hi Colin,

    There’s no way to get the PAYG fare without using Oyster or contactless. You would only need to touch out at Enfield because the 60+ Oyster is effectively an off-peak season ticket so it doesn’t matter if it’s not touched in. Changing at Cheshunt and using London Overground is really the only sensible way, and it’s only £2.20 off-peak.

    Re the trip you made. If you call the helpdesk they should be able to sort it out, but they won’t want you to make a habit of it.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by Mike.
    #3733
    Colin Newman
    Participant

    Thanks. I was quite happy to use contactless (and I swiped my bank card at Rye House) and I realise I only *need* to use my 60+ card to open a ticket gate where necessary.

    If, as you put it, my 60+ card is an off-peak season ticket, what I needed to do was like the old extensions that used to be possible.

    I’m guessing people confronted with the choice between £6.90 and £2.90, aren’t going to opt for the former just to avoid having to swipe out at Enfield Lock, yet the machine doesn’t offer a way of paying the £2.90, tempting people to dodge the fare.

    #3734
    Mike
    Moderator

    Hi Colin,

    The old extensions are still available. Rye House to Boundary Zone 6 is £6.50 single, £6.60 super off-peak day return, £7.70 off-peak day return and £11.20 anytime return.

    The ticket machine cannot offer the PAYG fare because that is only available when using the PAYG system. Part of the reason for the discrepancy is the disparity between singles and returns on paper. As PAYG only operates as single fares it was necessary to make the single fare half the required return fare.

    #3736
    Colin Newman
    Participant

    “The ticket machine cannot offer the PAYG fare because that is only available when using the PAYG system.”

    Sorry, but that sounds like a circular argument. It cannot offer the PAYG fare because it does not.

    It seems technically possible for it to take £2.90 off me (ironically it would have been via my contactless card) and then put that £2.90 onto my 60+ card as an Oyster top up / fare extension.

    #3737
    Mike
    Moderator

    I’m sorry if it sounds like a circular argument. If you are unhappy with the fares offered by the ticket machine at Rye House then I suggest you contact Greater Anglia and ask them to explain. They set both fares for paper tickets and the PAYG fares.

    Sadly it isn’t technically possible to have fare extensions on 60+ Oysters or Freedom Passes. The reason is the different rules for different train companies. A touch in at Cheshunt and a touch out at Liverpool Street does not tell the system whether you used London Overground or Greater Anglia. There are numerous other examples as well.

    #3738
    Colin Newman
    Participant

    That’s a pity. As I changed at Tottenham Hale the system could deduce that I used GA, but I take your point about LST. This anomaly renders the whole Hertford East branch as unreachable by PAYG for 60+ card users.

    #3739
    Colin Newman
    Participant

    The 60+ card map provided by TfL says of the GA route north of Enfield Lock “An extension or other travel ticket must be purchased before travel to stations on these routes.”

    https://content.tfl.gov.uk/60-plus-london-free-travel-national-rail-map.pdf

    #3740
    Mike
    Moderator

    It’s not just Hertford East. The same thing applies to Shenfield beyond zone 6. Also 60+ cards are valid on London Overground from 0900 whereas its 0930 for most other TOCs. This affects lines like New Cross Gate to West Croydon or Crystal Palace where the card is valid on orange trains after 0900 but not on green trains until 0930.

    #3741
    Colin Newman
    Participant

    Are you sure? Which stations on the Shenfield line accept PAYG/contactless but not 60+?

    #3742
    Mike
    Moderator

    You can’t use Greater Anglia from Shenfield or Brentwood.

    #3743
    Colin Newman
    Participant
    #3744
    Mike
    Moderator

    I don’t think it does. The 60+ Oyster is an off-peak zone 1-6 travelcard with extra validity on TfL services. To use it to Shenfield on a GA train you need a ticket from either boundary zone 6 or Harold Wood.

    #3745
    Colin Newman
    Participant

    Yes – sorry – you are right and I got muddled up.

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