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Under normal circumstances, I take this journey by changing at West Hampstead, however, during this period, there are engineering works closing the line through West Hampstead which means the normal zone 2 only route is unavailable, and at the same time, there is also another engineering work closing the line from Liverpool Street which makes the zone 1-2 route unavailable as well.
The best route available to me now is to change between Swiss Cottage (Jubilee line) and South Hampstead (Mildmay line), as a replacement of the West Hampstead interchange, which is a “false OSI”, shown on the tube map but not really an OSI as previously reported.
Has anyone used this route recently and what is the fare charged? Is it still two separate fares? On a related route, Kilburn High Road to Hackney Central was defined as Zone 1-2 by default despite that a direct train travels wholly in zone 2, has this been fixed as well?
Hi Michael,
The dotted lines on the tube map are described as “less than a 10 minute walk” as opposed to an out-of-station-interchange, although the circle for the station does mean interchange, so I guess it’s a bit confusing. Unless they have added an OSI since the list was last published, using that interchange will result in two fares. Under normal circumstances there is little point in an OSI between those stations because just about any journey can be made without resorting to walking down the street.
On the other matter, direct trains only run on a few days a year when engineering diversions mean trains pass through Primrose Hill. I don’t think TfL will entertain defining that as a default route when it isn’t available for most of the time. As someone who might benefit when it does happen, feel free to request that they consider it. It’s probably best to send an email or fill out a help an contact webform, but a phone call to the helpdesk might result in them taking details and calling you back later on.
The Lioness line diagram and announcement now officially shows South Hampstead / Swiss Cottage as an interchange.
I plan to try this interchange once this week and, if it results in two fares, I’ll make a complaint to TfL using this diagram as evidence.
Harringay Green Lanes and Manor House have been shown as closeby for decades. There are even road signs pointing the way. It’s still not an OSI.
If things aren’t fixed by TfL I am planning to raise this matter to London Travelwatch and possibly my MP as it is clearly an important issue for my area.
This diversionary route has become much more important over the last few years and has been used much more frequently, from just a few weekend a year with 30-minute frequency to now a whole week with 15-minute frequency.
Swiss Cottage / South Hampstead serves the exact same function as West Hampstead when the Mildmay line is diverted.
I fear you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the meanings and mechanisms behind the TfL map notation and fare setting practices.
Good luck though.
Since the Overground line renaming all the official materials have shown South Hampstead / Swiss Cottage as an interchange inside both Lioness line and Jubilee line trains, and after this week long diversion, there are still three weekends in the coming two months where this diversionary route is used.
An unusual London Overground trip is possible during Betwixmas
I’ll also follow up this matter with an FOI in February to ask how many people do this South Hampstead / Swiss Cottage interchange within 20 minutes on the diversion days, compared to normal days.
A previous FOI was posted on the issue of overcharging on direct trains but it was beyond the 8-week limit for the Oyster data to be retained, and now there are enough diversion days within an 8-week window for this matter to be seriously investigated.
What I mean by my comment is that you are interpreting the word ‘Interchange’ on a printed route map as meaning something specific in the context of the TfL fare structure. That’s your interpretation, which is fine, but it isn’t (as far as I know) TfL’s interpretation. The full map illustrates this with its use of words similar to “a less than 10 minute walking distance”.
The fare structure is/should be what’s published in the fare finder database. That isn’t overridden by what’s printed on maps or what route a passenger actually travels. If mobile Bluetooth tracking ever gets off the ground, that may change. We’re not there yet.
To be clear (because I’m paranoid about writing clearly), I’m not suggesting you shouldn’t request this change if you want to but I that’s a different approach to what I think you’re proposing.
I must admit, Feathers, that I share your concern. However, if these ‘interchanges’ are indeed being shown on car line diagrams then I think that potentially changes things. I’m intending making some requests later in the month and will include this case along with some others when I do.
In the abstract, the word ‘Interchange’ isn’t inaccurate. I agree with you, however, in this specific case because of the use on the tube map of the words “internal interchange” which does normally imply a lack of gateline obstructions or OSIs where there are gatelines. (I can’t say that’s an absolute truth but it could be a fair interpretation.)
Of course, none of that is implied or stated in the use of the word ‘interchange’ but it would be clearer to use different terms for different circumstances on the car line diagrams just as they do on the tube map.
I travelled a round trip on this route today and a total of £5.90 was deducted from my Oyster card with National Railcard discount (£1.30 + £1.90 + £1.90 + £0.80).
I’ll write a complaint to TfL with the web form, as the in-car diagram and announcement on the Mildmay line train when approaching South Hampstead confirm that these stations are now an official pair of interchange stations.
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