Over 60s extension

Hi Vincent,

Sadly Greater Anglia are making things up.

The 60+ Oyster Card is an off-peak zones 1-6 travelcard with a few TfL related extensions. As a zonal and season ticket, the train DOES NOT need to stop where you change from one ticket to another. Please quote condition 14.3 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel to them.

If they’ve said this using public social media then please reply with the link and I’ll put them right publicly.

Hi Vincent,

No it isn’t. Between Harold Wood and Shenfield the 60+ Oyster is only valid on Elizabeth line services.

<Sigh>

If you were using the 60+ Oyster to travel to Shenfield on a Greater Anglia service and didn’t have any other ticket then they would be correct (unless the train called at Romford). But the 60+ Oyster, like the London Freedom Pass, is an off-peak zone 1-6 travelcard and the usual rules apply about combining with other tickets. As long as you have a ticket valid from the boundary of zone 6 then you are absolutely fine.

I suggest you write again stating that:

• You know that the 60+ Oyster cannot be used on its own to Shenfield
• You are sure that if a Greater Anglia train called at Romford that it would be valid to use all the way to Romford on a Greater Anglia service (cite the xx23 and xx53 departures from Liverpool Street on a Sunday).
• You are also certain that when combined with another ticket valid from the boundary of zone 6, the 60+ Oyster is as valid as a London Travelcard providing that travel is not before 0930 on weekdays.

I concur that that could be a good way forward. Thanks for keeping me in touch.

Thanks for the update, Vincent. I actually sent my own query to GA on the basis that I also have a 60+ Oyster card. The initial response claimed that customer relations didn’t have enough information because the 60+ isn’t a GA product. The advisor said they’d forwarded my query to a manager. Let’s hope I get the right response next time.

This seems to be correctly explained on Greater Anglia’s own website.
https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/tickets-fares/daily-tickets/oyster-cards

See the section headed “Travelcard on Oyster”

Unfortunately it seems to be common across all train companies that not all advisors understand how fares are applied.

Greater Anglia are at it again. Last year using my 60+ Oyster card I was threatened with a fine and prosecution by a RPO at Liverpool Street if I boarded a Stansted Express train stopping at Bishops Stortford with an extension ticket from Enfield Lock (zone 6) to Bishops Stortford using section 14.3 of the National Rail Conditions of travel. I sent an email to the contact centre and was advised that my ticket was valid and I got an apology. In April this year, the same thing happened again and I was threatened by the RPO at the station that if he saw me boarding a train that to Bishops Stortford using my oyster card he would report me to revenue protection and he would personally ensure I was prosecuted for repeatedly using my oyster card when I was not permitted to do so. I complained to the MD Martin Beable and got this reply confirming that the only route I can use my 60+ Oyster card is on the Liverpool Street to Stratford services. I then received an email from a senior revenue protection officer saying I could use my oyster card with a suitable extension. If the MD doesnt know about the validity of oyster cards on their services and station staff proudly promote their new poster ” We wont always catch you but we will always prosecute you” what hope is there. Here are the two responses sent one day apart from each other contradicting each other:

Thank you for your recent email to Martin Beable. Martin has reviewed your comments and asked me to respond on behalf of the Senior Customer Contacts Team. I hope this is acceptable.

First, I would like to apologise for the difficulties you have experienced when using your 60+ Oyster card on our services. I appreciate that the information provided about this product has been unclear, particularly as you were given incorrect advice previously and I hope the explanation below helps to clarify the terms and conditions of the card.

As you may know, the 60+ Oyster card is available to people aged 60 or over who live in a London borough. The card provides free travel on the Transport for London (TfL) network and on certain routes operated by other train companies. On the Greater Anglia network, however, the card is only valid for travel between London Liverpool Street and Stratford.

Having reviewed your case, I understand that the issues arose while you were travelling on our West Anglia route to Stansted Mountfitchet. I can confirm that the 60+ Oyster card is not valid for travel on this part of the Greater Anglia network, in line with the card’s terms and conditions. I have attached a link for the map of where you can use this card, as well as the terms and conditions, below:

https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/free-and-discounted-travel/60-plus-oyster-photocard

If travelling to Stansted Mountfitchet, you may use your 60+ Oyster card on TfL services for the valid part of your journey, but you must also hold a valid ticket for any travel on Greater Anglia services beyond the card’s permitted area. For example, you could travel on TfL services to Tottenham Hale or Cheshunt and then use a separate ticket for onward travel to Stansted Mountfitchet on Greater Anglia services.

I appreciate that you believed you could use the card up to the boundary of its validity and then purchase an extension ticket onwards. However, the issue in this case is that the 60+ Oyster card is only accepted on Greater Anglia services between Liverpool Street and Stratford, and is not valid on other Greater Anglia routes.

This is why you were stopped and challenged while travelling on our services. That said, our staff are expected to remain polite and professional at all times, even when explaining ticketing restrictions, and I am sorry this was not your experience. I have passed your concerns to our Revenue Protection Management Team so the matter can be reviewed with the staff involved. While I am unable to share the outcome of any internal investigation, I can assure you that your concerns will be treated seriously.

I note that you intend to raise the matter with London TravelWatch. I would also like to make you aware of the Rail Ombudsman, which is a free and independent service. If you remain dissatisfied with how we have handled your complaint, the Rail Ombudsman can review the matter and decide whether any further action is appropriate, such as guidance, an apology, or compensation. As we have now reached a final position on your complaint, you may refer to this correspondence as a “deadlock letter” should you wish to contact them.

Email: info@railombudsman.org
Phone: 0330 094 0362

Once again, thank you for taking the time to contact us and I hope the above explanation is helpful.

Kind regards,

Anne Middleton
Senior Customer Contact Team
Greater Anglia
Thank you for your email and please accept our apologies for the delay in responding to you.
I am sorry to learn of your experience at London Liverpool Street on 2 April. The concerns you have raised regarding both the advice provided to you and the manner in which this interaction was handled are taken seriously.
With regard to ticket validity, you are correct that under the National Rail Conditions of Travel, Oyster with a suitable extension ticket can be used for journeys beyond the zonal boundary where permitted. We will review the circumstances you have described to ensure that our staff are providing consistent and accurate guidance to customers.
Your comments regarding the conduct of the Revenue Protection Officer and the station colleague have also been noted. Staff are expected to communicate professionally at all times and to identify themselves when requested. This will form part of our internal review.
Once again, I apologise for the distress caused and thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.
Kind regards,
Pete

Peter Jackson
Revenue Protection Depot Manager North
Colchester, Ipswich, London Liverpool Street

Mike

Thank you. I am forwarding the MD’s reply to me to Heidi Alexander and Lord Hendy. It’s completely unacceptable for this culture to prevail in the newly nationalised railway system led by complete ignorance by a highly paid public servant using civil powers through his staff to threaten passengers like me who stick to the rules and know more about the National Rail Conditions of travel than he does. I’ll let you know what response I get.

Regards