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Mike
Thank you for your helpful update. My only issue is that TFL are now saying one thing and GA through their customer service team and the MD another. GA need to change the announcement on their trains passing through Tottenham Hale to “Oyster Cards can only be used beyond this station with a suitable extension”. At the moment the announcement states that you cannot under any circumstances travel beyond TH with an Oyster Card and may be prosecuted for doing so or face a penalty fare. This is why I have had so many issues with GA staff.
RegardsDear Mike
Sadly the saga continues and the ombudsman has accepted that GA is correct in saying I can’t use my 60+ Oyster card on any of their services other than the Stratford service. I would sore istevyiurvthought as I face a fine abstention prosecution if I continue to use their services Stansted service with an extension despite TfL telling you I can
Dear Mr. Moule,
I hope you are well.
I am contacting you regarding your case against Greater Anglia, the Rail Service Provider (“RSP”).
Thank you for your patience whilst I have been reviewing your case file.
I understand that you spoke to my colleague earlier this week, and I apologise that I was unavailable to take the call.
Following receipt of your application, we requested a response from the RSP as part of our investigation so that we can consider the information from both parties. To update you on your case, the RSP have provided a response as follows:
“The customer is travelling with an Oyster 60+ TravelCard which allows for free travel on the TFL network if the user lives in a London borough. When attempting to travel from London Liverpool Street to Bishops Stortford, the customer was stopped and advised that he could not use this particular ticket on our services. The customer claims that the inspector was rude when explaining these rulings and that the advice given was incorrect.
We have explained to the customer that in line with his Oyster 60+ Travelcard, travel is not permitted on GA services except between London Liverpool Street and Stratford. If the customer is looking to travel to Bishops Stortford, he would need to travel to the closest TFL station (for free – using his pass) and then purchase an extension ticket to travel on GA services. This is detailed in the terms and conditions of the card as below:
https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/free-and-discounted-travel/60-plus-oyster-photocard
We have also apologised for the interaction that the customer had with our colleague. We have advised that even when giving disappointing news, we expect staff to be polite and courteous and so we are sorry that this was not his experience. We have passed this on to the relevant management team to investigate with the colleague concerned, as per our internal processes. The outcome of the investigation would not be provided in line with GDPR. In terms of CCTV or body cam for the incident – no footage was requested and so any relevant footage would have subsequently expired.
The customer appears to have referenced several rulings in relation to Oyster and extension tickets, particularly section 14.3 of the NRCOT – which permits the customer to use an Oyster card and an extension ticket without the train needing to stop. However, this does not apply in this instance.
As per the terms of the customer’s ticket, free travel is not permitted on GA service, except between London Liverpool Street and Stratford. If the customer was attempting to travel to Bishops Stortford on GA services using this ticket, it was correct that he was stopped and asked to purchase another ticket. It would NOT be the case that he could travel to the Oyster boundary zone using the ticket, to then buy an extension – free travel would not have been applicable.”
Following the response, I have also reviewed the website (https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/free-and-discounted-travel/60-plus-oyster-photocard#on-this-page-1) which indicates that travel is only permitted between Stratford and Liverpool Street on Greater Anglia services.
From your application form, I understand that you were seeking an explanation or apology.
Please can you review the response provided by the RSP and confirm if you wanted anything further clarifying?
Kind regards,
Dear Richard,
[Double sigh]
The Rail Ombudsman relies on advice from the train companies, and has obviously spoken to the wrong person at GA. My contact at TfL says that the web page they are relying on will be amended and expects it to go live next week after getting approval. They admit that what is there now is confusing. If it was me, my next move would be to reply with the following bullet points:
- The map at https://content.tfl.gov.uk/60-plus-london-free-travel-national-rail-map.pdf clearly states that travel is valid on National Rail routes operated by Greater Anglia within zones 1-6. That map is linked from the page they are quoting, before the confusing extra bit.
- The Oyster 60+ card is an off-peak travelcard and thus can be used to the boundary of zone 6 along with an appropriate extension ticket without the train needing to stop at the boundary, as per NRCOT 14.3, as long as the travel within zones 1-6 is not before 0930.
- The page they are quoting will be amended at some point next week to remove the confusion
- Request a letter from the MD of GA apologising for the lengthy saga and confirming that what you have asserted all along is in fact the truth.
Good luck.
Thank you Mike for your help. Neither GA nor the Ombudsman have acknowledged their mistake unfortunately.
Best wishesReading the recently mentioned webpage(https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/free-and-discounted-travel/60-plus-oyster-photocard) I see it says “Free travel on most National Rail services in London” (going on to specify when)
My first question from this is what are the National Rail services in London that are not covered by this (i.e. are not included in ‘most’)?
Noting then that just below this it states “Free travel on the following National Rail services:” (followed by a slightly different specification of when, and a list), is this the ‘confusing’ section that should have been changed? (If so, it hasn’t been – it’s still confusing as there is no statement as to relationship between the two sections)
Trust me, the page has been amended and is now clearer. You can see the previous version at https://web.archive.org/web/20260619195853/https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/free-and-discounted-travel/60-plus-oyster-photocard although the stupid cookie message gets in the way a bit.
The National Rail services that don’t accept the 60+ Oyster card are HEx and HS1.
The linked map also explains the situation accurately, apart from a spurious column about disabled freedom passes.
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