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Hello, Mike.
I learned something new yesterday, though I’m not entirely sure what that was 🙂
You’ll recall that my preferred method of payment in TfL-land is an ITSO from Greater Anglia which I load with a one day travelcard.
I was at Heathrow and had used the card on a bus, then tube from Hatton Cross to T5, exit there, enter a few minutes later and tube to T2/3.
At T2/3, the details of which I can’t now recall, I exited and re-entered several times within a few minutes. On the last attempted entry, the ITSO was rejected with code 26. According to the very old list of reject codes I have, 26 is “Entry/exit at same station”.
I discussed this with a member of staff and we looked at the smartcard on a POM. To my surprise it showed that the card (or travelcard ticket – it wasn’t clear which) was void. The staff member of course couldn’t explain this and let me in anyway. His colleague then had to let me out a few minutes later because I’d decided not to travel (delays) and the ITSO knew I wasn’t in the system.
I then took the (non-TfL) bus 742 to Rickmansworth where I again checked the card on a POM: it still showed void (I have a photo of this if you’re interested).
I have three apps on my phone which read ITSO: GA’s own, ecebs, and NR. All of them showed the card and travelcard ticket to be fine.
I travelled around the northwest Met using my Oyster until, a couple of hours later, I returned to Heathrow by bus 742.
I then used my Oyster for a couple of journeys in the free travel area before starting my journey home by exiting at Hatton Cross. Before leaving the ticket hall, I thought to check the ITSO by touching on a gate. To my surprise the light turned green and the gate opened.
I then travelled to T4 where the ITSO happily let me out. I checked it on a POM and it was now no longer void. I used it for a couple of bus journeys and it worked fine.
So the things I think I learned are:
– a travelcard is not a magic pass: it has limits on frequent entry/exits just as Oyster and contactless do
– triggering these limits causes the card to be temporarily blocked for a period of hours.Moral: be more circumspect about entry/exit at the same station, even with travelcards.
I had always understood that a travelcard – particularly on paper – gave unlimited entry/exit as the gates checked only the date and that you were within the zones. It seems that smartcard travelcards are err… smarter than that.
Is this something you’re aware of or can explain further?
Hi Alan,
That’s an interesting sequence. I do know that even paper travelcards object to being used in the same gates in quick succession. It’s called passback and the system tries to prevent you passing the ticket back for another person to use.
I think your smartcard may well have worked on the gates, rather than the POM at Rickmansworth. It would probably be worthwhile asking GA if they know what had happened. It might also be worth asking TfL for a refund of your Oyster charges given that you had a valid travelcard.
I’m wondering whether the block was just for the Heathrow station that you’d been ‘abusing’ and was cleared as soon as you used it on a gate somewhere else. It’s certainly not very friendly to stop a perfectly valid ticket from working.
Another possibility is that the Underground POM didn’t understand something the gates had done to the card, given that the ITSO readers said that the ticket was fine.
Let me know what GA and/or TfL say.
It was certainly an interesting experience; you can always trust me to stress-test a ticketing function 🙂
I don’t recall trying the ITSO on the gates at Ricky: I tried the POM and as it still showed void I gave up and resigned myself to a discussion with GA about a replacement card.
For that reason, I don’t think I can ask TfL for a refund as I chose not to use the ticket I already had. It was only a few quid anyway.
Also for that reason, I can’t answer your interesting question about whether the block applied only at T2/3 and would have cleared had I tried the card on a gate elsewhere.
One thing that backs up that that might be true is that the POM at T4, after the card had been unblocked by the gate at Hatton Cross, showed incomplete details of the last journey (i.e. from HC to T4). Usually the place/date/time of both touches would be shown but it had only the place. The full place/date/time was shown for T4. This suggests to me, and I think you’re suggesting the same, that the gate at HC unblocked the card in a way which resulted in incomplete details being recorded. As no-one will ever tell us, we can only speculate.
Before contacting GA – though I hope I don’t have to – I need to test the ITSO to make sure it’s still working properly. I’ll pop up to London sometime this week and make some more normal journeys.
One of the benefits of Oyster is that every touch (at least until TfL broke it in TfL Go) is visible. An ITSO seems to hold only the last journey. Do you know if the full history is available from an ITSO?
I don’t know whether the whole history is available, somehow. I haven’t used my card for over 2 years now as I use the 60+ whenever I can.
Anyway, see what Greater Anglia say. If it turns out that the gates did disable a perfectly valid ticket then I would be inclined to ask TfL for a refund. I respect your view if different, though.
I wonder if the full history is held by ITSO (the organisation) and/or GA (in my case). I might see what a subject access request gives me…
I’m fortunate that I can afford to value my time and sanity over the few quid extra I spent. Dealing with customer service – in any organisation – is usually a time-consuming, stressful, and often unproductive experience so I avoid it when I can, even more so when the issue is complex and I’m unsure of my justification.
I’ve looked at the issue in more detail and I’m puzzled why the gate would return error 26 “Entry and Exit at same station” (what does such an “error” mean anyway?). If the system was concerned about my rapid exit/entry/exit/attempted entry then error 41 “Pass back through / Zig-Zag: Attempt to Enter after an Entry and Exit at the same station…” would seem to be more accurate and appropriate.
Whichever, there must also be a timeout and this backs up your theory that even though the POM at Ricky still showed “void”, presenting the card at the gate may well have cleared the problem. The fact that the ITSO card stores only the most recent journey also means that it can only test for passback at that station and would work properly elsewhere.
Looking at the ITSO specification documents and my card, no passback rules seem to be defined in the ticket (i.e. the travelcard as stored on the card). In this case, passback rules are as defined by the POST (Point of Service Terminal), i.e by TfL. It therefore seems likely that the same rules apply to ITSO as to Oyster/contactless/paper. If so, at least that gives us some times to work with. If I’d waited at T2/3 for 30 minutes the ITSO might have worked again.
Sorry, Mike, I guess this is a little off-topic for your site; I will let you know if I hear anything useful, though.
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