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Thanks for your interest and perseverance, Mike.
It seems like the key might be in this mysterious routing on the smartcard, R40232. That only appears on the Amersham record on the card; the expired records for a z1-6 have that field empty but are otherwise identical apart from the dates. So if the gate is reading only the destination R1256 then one can see why it would reject. I’ve only just realised that at no time did I look at the gate reject code: the red light on the reader was all I was focussed on.
I look forward to learning what you discover, and I’ll post TfL’s reply.
Hi Mike,
I agree it would be good to get this sorted, though I think it’s unlikely I’ll have the enthusiasm to go much further than seeing what TfL say. Although I have some interest in trains and the Underground in particular, my interest in the complex world of ticketing extends only so far as minimising cost while maximising convenience.
I should have said earlier that there are three possible causes:
1. the ticket itself is not valid for unlimited travel in z1-9
2. the ticket is not being coded correctly on the smartcard
3. the gates and POMs are not programmed correctlyI’ve concluded that the cause is no.1 because I can’t find any evidence to the contrary; that is, where it’s described as being for unlimited travel in z1-9 or as a z1-9 Travelcard. Even GA’s reply to my enquiry can be interpreted in various ways as it’s obvious that a ticket from Amersham to London must in some way be “valid for travel in London Fare Zones 7-9”.
https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=AMR&dest=MYB&rlc=SRN says only “Valid for unlimited travel in London Zones 1–6”
NRE uses the same wording as GA’s app: “Also valid for travel in London Fare Zones 7-9”, and explains code ODT as “…unlimited travel throughout London on National Rail, London Underground, DLR, London Trams and London Bus services within Zones 1-6.” (Poorly worded, as it’s valid on TfL buses no matter where they are, and it fails to mention the HEx & HS1 exclusions.)
https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/travelcards is more comprehensive, even saying “They are issued to cover Zones 1-6 only” and “One Day Travelcards are valid for one return journey from the station of origin to London fare zones 1-6, and for unlimited travel within the zones.”
Clear as mud, then. I’ll report back when TfL reply.
I had a reply from Greater Anglia and they say ” the Travelcard you purchased is valid throughout London Zones 1-9″ and suggested I contact TfL to learn why the card didn’t work the gate at Chesham.
Before I did that, I wanted to do some more research so today I bought the same ticket again (naturally at the increased price of £10.60) and visited all the LU stations north of Moor Park.
The smartcard & ticket worked the gates and POMs at most stations, the exceptions being Chesham, Croxley, & Watford. That is, those stations which aren’t on the direct route from Amersham to zone 6.
Not being one to leave a job half done, rather than bother with Carpenders Park and its neighbours, I went to Brentwood which placed me firmly in Greater Anglia territory though the station is managed by TfL. The GA smartcard & ticket wasn’t recognised by the gateline there. Clearly, this ticket is not “valid throughout London Zones 1-9”.
I may now contact TfL about the original issue at Chesham but I remain of the belief that this ticket is not, as GA asserts, a z1-9 Travelcard. It’s an Amersham to z6 boundary ticket then it’s a z1-6 TC.
The fact that the ticket works on the direct route can be explained by it permitting break of journey.
I’m sure I recall reading on another forum – which I’m not a member of – that TOCs outside London are only permitted to sell z1-6 Travelcards, and then only in conjunction with a return ticket from/to a station outside the zones.
Whatever, I suggest that the solution to Jonathan’s requirement is as I said earlier: either a second Travelcard on paper or Oyster/contactless for the northern reaches of the Met. Which is better/least expensive depends on the route and times.
One last point: when I’ve bought tickets in GA’s app and transferred them to the smartcard, I’ve been able to do so immediately though GA say leave it five minutes. This morning it took much longer – about fifteen minutes. Something to be aware of.
Thanks, Mike. No, no idea what R40232 means. Much of the data on a smartcard seems not to be intended for human understanding. It’s interesting that you believe the ticket was valid: that’s why I wanted to test at other stations but trains were against me today.
I won’t be asking TfL for my £1.40 back – not worth the trouble. I might, however, ask GA what they think the validity of the ticket is.
Jonathan: don’t be disheartened. The GA smartcard method solves 99% of the problem (of having to feed cardboard through a slot at multiple locations*); it’s only the bits north of Moor Park that are a problem, and the best solution for that depends on your route and the timings of the trains. At Amersham, Chesham, Chalfont, and Moor Park – trains being as frequent as they aren’t – you’ll almost certainly have time to touch in/out with Oyster or contactless. Reversing at Watford may be a bit tricky because going up to the gateline might cause you to miss a train.
Another option might be to have two TCs, one on smartcard, one on paper. That’s not as expensive as it sounds because you’ll be able to save a bit by buying only what you need for the route. If starting inside z6 and finishing at Amersham/Chesham then you’d need an Anytime z1-6 on smartcard and an Off-peak z1-9 on paper. Shame there isn’t a z6-9 TC.
* a gate at South Wimbledon once wiped a paper z1-9 Anytime TC of mine, a fact I didn’t discover until arriving at Victoria in the rush hour 🙁
An addendum…
I’ve used the technique described further up the thread (One Day Travelcard on a Greater Anglia ITSO smartcard) successfully many times since my first trial last month. I’ve usually used Feltham-Waterloo and this gives me the required z1-6 Travelcard though I don’t go to either station.
Today I decided to start at Amersham or Chesham so purchased an Off-peak Day Travelcard with Amersham as the origin and Marylebone as the destination. The cost, as expected, was £10.10 (I have a Senior Railcard), and during the purchase process on GA’s app it says “Also valid for travel in London Fare Zones 7-9”. So this seemed to me to be effectively a z1-9 TC. Except it isn’t.
Only after purchase and loading to GA’s smartcard did I notice that the destination was London Zones 1-6 (0035). Ah, I thought, this isn’t a z1-9 TC; it’s a ticket from/to Amersham to the z6 boundary then it’s a z1-6 TC. The same result is obtained if you choose Brentwood as the origin.
To test this out, I started not at Amersham but Chesham. Sure enough, the POMs and the gateline refused to recognise the smartcard. I used my Oyster to travel from Chesham to Harrow-on-the-Hill where I had business anyway. I checked the smartcard at a POM at Harrow and the origin is given as AMSHAM, destination R1256, and route R40232. I then continued on my journeys around z1-6 using the GA smartcard with its z1-6 TC successfully.
I had hoped to do further tests on the way back to Amersham but a curious absence of Met trains to Amersham made that tricky so I had to settle for the hourly Chiltern train from Harrow to Amersham. All I was able to confirm was that the smartcard happily opened the gate at Amersham.
So the ticket is the same cost as a paper z1-9 TC and GA says the ticket is valid for travel in z7-9. This is true but, it seems to me, only on the direct route to Amersham. It’s no good for the diversions to Watford Met and Chesham and therefore may not be useful for the Tube Challenge.
Mike: thoughts?
But before you leave the platform, check the DMI for the next train to your desired terminal. I’ve waited > 15 minutes for a train to T4 🙁
Coincidentally, I’ve just seen this on IanVisits:
“TfL also continues to consider a separate proposal to generate additional income by withdrawing from the Travelcard Agreement. This would require the support of the Government and the Train Operating Companies due to the impact on Travelcard usage in London, especially for customers travelling from outside London where PAYG is not available.”If Travelcards go then something like the Tube Challenge becomes either impossible or very expensive.
Jonathan: I agree; some time ago I asked TfL why they didn’t offer a one day travelcard on Oyster but they didn’t answer (they replied to other points in the same email, just not that one). I think we have to accept that some journeys, such as the Tube Challenge, don’t fit into “normal” journey patterns. Good luck with the Challenge.
Mike: Thanks, done.
Mike, my previous post had another paragraph which others may find helpful but the site won’t allow me to post though I haven’t been able to determine why. Can I send it to you (I can’t see a direct message function here)?
As promised…
I put Greater Anglia’s app on my phone – quite a slick app as railway apps go – and ordered a GA smartcard which arrived a week later.
I then used the app to purchase an off-peak one day travelcard z1-6. I chose Harold Wood to Liverpool Street though any z6 NR to the appropriate London NR terminus will work (Brentwood or Amersham for z1-9). The default fare offered may not be the Travelcard but there’s a selection to choose one. I then used GA’s app and my NFC-enabled phone to load the ticket to the GA smartcard.
Yesterday I boarded a TfL bus near Feltham and with some trepidation and my Oyster card handy I touched the smartcard on the reader. It beeped and the light turned green! I then travelled around London on bus/tube/DLR/NR and the smartcard worked fine all day.
It was such a relief to be able to travel around without worrying about maximum journey times, when/where I needed to touch out, OSIs, or the nonsense at Wimbledon. The only disadvantage I can see is cost: Travelcards, especially anytime ones, cost more than the daily cap. For me, the convenience is worth the premium.
So there’s the solution for anyone like me who’s long had a requirement for a one day Travelcard on something other than paper. Hopefully this will help anyone else with a similar need. Thanks to Jonathan Maddox for asking the question and to Alan (28481k) for the solution.
Thanks, Jonathan. I’ll give it a test, say with an off-peak day travelcard, the next time I need one after I’ve got the smartcard. It’ll be worth £9.50 to see if/how it works.
As well as it being a surprise that only one TOC seems to offer this, I’m also surprised that TfL’s gatelines accept other companies’ smartcards. TfL only advertises Oyster and contactless, but I guess that’s to be expected.
I’ll post the results on here.
I’m very interested to have come across this thread as I’ve often bemoaned the absence of a Day Travelcard on Oyster. Oyster is great but the maximum journey times can be a real problem for some activities, including the Tube Challenge.
I’ve looked at Greater Anglia’s website and it certainly does seem to be possible to load all the usual TCs onto a GA smartcard. GA is the only train company I’ve seen which seems to sell these. The question then is: has anyone actually achieved it in practice, Jonathan perhaps?
What I’d like to do is to buy the Travelcard on GA’s app and load it onto GA’s smartcard using NFC on my phone. Can anyone comment on that?
