OSI List

117 thoughts on “OSI List”

1. It’s strange that there are no OSIs between Bethnal Green NR and Bethnal Green LU. And also no OSIs between Whitechapel and Bethnal Green NR/LU, although they are quite close to each other (there are stations in the list that are futher away from each other but still have OSIs). These OSIs would provide a good alternative to avoid Shoreditch High Street’s zone 1 status when going in a Nort-South direction in the East.

   Is there actually a way to petition new OSIs?

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   • Well you can ask by emailing the helpdesk. Distance isn’t the only criteria used to decide whether an OSI is created, although as a rule of thumb they won’t consider more than half a mile without a very good case. Most OSIs are actually under a third of a mile.

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2. I am wondering if there has been a change of time allowed at Finsbury Park.
   I left the station and re entered via the Seven Sisters Road exit using the PVAL’s there, the time difference shown on my Oyster statement was 13 minutes but still the two journeys made were joined together.
   Fortunately this did not cause a problem with the maximum time allowed but it could of done.

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   • Can you copy your journey history or confirm what you touched out on. It sounds like the continuation exit might be at play here.

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3. Mike the details are

   10:27 Touch in St James Park
   10:48 Touch out Finsbury Park LU
   10:59 Touch in Finsbury Park LU
   11:42 Touch out Harrow on the Hill

   Total fare charged was £3, sorry for error it was 11 minutes not 12 between touch out and back in on the PVAL validators at the Seven Sisters Road exit.

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   • Hi Malcolm,

     Yes, that’s the continuation exit at work, not the OSI. See this page on this site for more details.

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4. Yes of course thanks for working it out Mike.
   I had not considered that because of the NR changes there but of course the LU side is ungated.

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   • Which is why there shouldn’t be a continuation exit there as it’s impossible to properly end a journey.

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5. For passengers using the Charing + branch of the Northern Line, I wonder if an OSI between Warren Street and Euston Square would be just as useful for passengers, the stations are physically closer together, going north there would be a time saving as from Euston Stn. you are effectively walking most of the way back towards a station you only went through a few minutes earlier – as the journey time between Euston and Warren Street is around a minute – then it’s probably quicker to change at Warren Street southbound for Euston Square instead of Euston.

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   • Hi Mark,

     Yes, Warren Street to Euston Square is definitely on my list of suggestions.

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6. Another suggestion for a future OSI once the AGA metro services are replaced by LOROL is an OSI between Bethnal Green and Whitechapel which would allow a non Zone 1 journey between those lines to the ELL.

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   • Not sure that the change of operator should make any difference, but I have heard this suggested before.

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7. Another plump here for Whitechapel OG to Bethnal Green NR. Not only is it a matter of distance, but also time. It happens that, at times, it is certainly quicker to travel from Wapping and points south via this interchange than via Liverpool Street.

   e.g. from TfL Journey Planner

   http://tfl.gov.uk/plan-a-journey/results?IsAsync=true&JpType=publictransport&From=Wapping+%28London%29%2C+Wapping&FromGeolocation=&ToGeolocation=&ViaGeolocation=&To=Hackney+Downs&TimeIs=departing&Date=20150226&Time=1400&Via=&NationalSearch=false&JourneyPreference=leasttime&Mode=tube&Mode=dlr&Mode=river-bus&Mode=cable-car&Mode=overground&Mode=national-rail&Mode=coach&AccessibilityPreference=norequirements&WalkingSpeed=average&MaxWalkingMinutes=40&CyclePreference=AllTheWay&SavePreferences=false&FromId=1000251&ToId=1001128

   Departs 14:05
   Arrives 14:39
   Total time: 34mins

   14hr05 DEPART WAPPING
   4 mins
   overground
   London Overground to Whitechapel
   14hr09 ARRIVE WHITECHAPEL

   14hr15 DEPART WHITECHAPEL
   6 mins
   tube
   Hammersmith & City line to Liverpool Street Underground Station
   14hr21 ARRIVE LIVERPOOL STREET

   14hr30 DEPART LIVERPOOL STREEET
   9 mins
   national-rail
   Greater Anglia to Cambridge Heath (London) Rail Station
   14hr39 ARRIVE HACKNEY DOWNS

   Whereas, were one to walk from Whitechapel to Bethnal Green, the journey would be as folows:

   14hr05 DEPART WAPPING
   4 mins
   overground
   London Overground to Whitechapel
   14hr09 ARRIVE WHITECHAPEL

   14hr09 DEPART WHITECHAPEL ON FOOT
   7′ at fast / 9′ at average / 12′ at slow walking speed
   14hr16 ARRIVE BETHNAL GREEN NR (Fast Walking Speed)
   14hr18 ARRIVE BEHTNAL GREEN NR (Average Walking Speed)
   14hr21 ARRIVE BEHTNAL GREEN NR (Slow Walking Speed)

   14hr18 DEPART BETHNAL GREEN NR
   6 mins
   national-rail
   Greater Anglia to Cambridge Heath (London) Rail Station
   14hr24 ARRIVE HACKNEY DOWNS

   OR

   14hr21 DEPART BETHNAL GREEN NR
   4 mins
   national-rail
   Greater Anglia to Cambridge Heath (London) Rail Station
   14hr25 ARRIVE HACKNEY DOWNS

   This saves 15′ on a 34′ journey

   Note:

   Walking directions and timings from TfL

   http://tfl.gov.uk/plan-a-journey/results?IsAsync=true&JpType=walking&From=Whitechapel&FromGeolocation=&ToGeolocation=&ViaGeolocation=&To=Bethnal+Green+NR&TimeIs=departing&Date=20150226&Time=1400&Via=&NationalSearch=false&JourneyPreference=leasttime&Mode=tube&Mode=dlr&Mode=river-bus&Mode=cable-car&Mode=overground&Mode=national-rail&Mode=coach&AccessibilityPreference=norequirements&WalkingSpeed=slow&MaxWalkingMinutes=40&CyclePreference=AllTheWay&SavePreferences=false&FromId=1000268&ToId=1001023

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   • Thanks for the feedback, I’ll make sure it’s passed on.

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8. Many tube-NR OSIs like Paddington allot 40 minutes for tube to NR interchange, but only 20 minutes for the opposite direction. Any reason for this?

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   • Hi Thomas,

     Yes. With the tube you have very frequent services and you wait on the platform having been through the gateline in the ticket hall. Whereas with National Rail you often wait on the concourse for an infrequent service and only pass through the gateline once the platform is known.

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10. I don’t understand why the OSI’s aren’t included on the TFL map: would it be hard to do? Plus the interchange time should surely depend on distance and be the same each way surely.
    I was travelling today (Saturday) from Epping to central London but the service had broken down so travelled from Chingford. On the return I travelled from Highbury & Islington via Walthamstowe: Fare £2.40. I know that the usual fare if I was travelling from Highbury to Epping via Stratford off-peak is £1.50. Why the difference?
    Iwould be grateful for an explanation or is there none?

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    • Hi Peter,

      Generally the interchange time is the same. Where it isn’t is at London Terminals where people catching trains usually wait outside the paid area on the concourse.

      As to the difference in fares, Epping is on the Central line which uses the original TfL scale where off-peak fares in zones 2-6 are all the same, while Chingford is on the new Liverpool Street scale where the fares more closely resemble the National Rail fares that applied when Greater Anglia ran the trains. This was a DfT requirement so as not to abstract on revenue from other lines.

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11. Hello Mike

    I see there is no OSI between Waterloo East and Blackfriars. Am I right in thinking that if I travel from Chelsfield to Waterloo East, walk to Blackfriars and then continue to St Pancras I’ll therefore be charged for 2 journeys? Presumably the only way to avoid that would be to catch the tube from Waterloo to Southwark and then walk to Blackfriars from there?

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    • Hi Paul,

      If you exit Waterloo East at the country end of the platforms you end up walking through Southwark station without travelling. This is a special case where you are not charged extra. All the bits of the journey should then add together into one.

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12. Mike,
    We have not spoken in ages.
    I don’t understand how touches on in-out validators work.
    If I have started a journey and touch an in-out validator, the journey is ended. I think that if I again touch within a short time, the touch is viewed as a duplicate. How long do I have to wait to start another journey? Does OSI affect the answer?

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    • Hi Walter,

      Good to hear from you again. A normal OSI doesn’t affect the answer, but an emergency one might. Normally it is 1 minute before a new touch can be made. If the station has continuation exit set then you need to allow 15 minutes. I’ve just noticed that I need to update the page on continuation exits. If an emergency OSI is set then 30 minutes will need to be allowed, but the helpdesk will refund any charges accrued by joining two journeys together in that instance.

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13. Thanks, Mike.
    Where do those times come from?

    I like your CAPTCHA substitute.
    Just one small grouse. The input field is wide enough to accept
    the name of a number, but only accepts a digitlist.
    For aesthetic reasons, I would prefer the name of a number (e.g. nine), rather than 9. I would have catered for both. 😉

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    • Hi Walter,

      I was given those times by TfL after querying why it had ignored a contactless touch. I have subsequently tested them but appear to have forgotten to update the page. It’s on the to do list 😉

      Re the captcha – so would I if I’d written it.

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14. I have Monthly TravelCard 1-3.
    Started journey from Bromley-By-Bow to Hammersmith by Hammersmith and city line. Touch out and touch in after 3 minutes (just crossed the road) at Hammersmith District. When train from Hammersmith to Kew Gardens.
    The jorney should not be charged (never exit zone 1-3).
    I was charged £1.70 on Friday, and £1.50 next Friday.
    Called Tfl center – got refund.
    The problem is why it is charging me? Nobody knows…
    It is very fast route, I want to use it but every time I will do it it will charge me. Any advice? Help…
    Thank you!!!

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    • Hi LK,

      It shouldn’t charge. Can you copy your journey history on a day that it charges, expanded out to show all touches?

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15. Hi Mike.

    The Citymapper app suggested that my quickest & cheapest (£1.50) route from Peckham Rye to Bruce Grove was Overground to Shoreditch, then walk to interchange at Bethnal Green and taking the overground to Bruce Grove. I ran between stations & took less than 6 mins, but got charged 2 x £1.50 fares. Surely this needs changing? Either on their app, or (ideally) given the close proximity, and to enhance the London public transport network then this should be an offical out-of-station-interchange?

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    • Hi Andrew,

      Are you sure you mean Shoreditch High Street? That’s in zone 1 and there are no £1.50 fares to it from Peckham Rye. Perhaps you meant Whitechapel?

      Anyway, I agree that some more OSIs in that part of London would be good. You’ll need to email Oyster customer services and suggest it. You won’t be the first, but they might now listen given that TfL now run Bethnal Green Overground station.

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16. Is there any reason why Shepherd’s Bush NR to Shepherd’s Bush Market is not an OSI?

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    • Because they think Wood Lane to White City is a better interchange. I think both should be valid. You can always email them and ask them to consider adding it.

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17. Can we chain or combine OSIs?

    I’m travelling Kingston to St Pancras. I intend to tap in at Kingston, tap out at Waterloo, walk up the escalators, tap in at Waterloo East, tap through to Southwark, tap out of Southwark at the Blackfriars Road exit, walk up the road, tap in to Blackfriars NR, and finally tap out at St Pancras. Your list above shows that each step is a valid OSI.

    The single fare finder reports that an off-peak journey from Kingston to St Pancras should cost just £3.80. I presume that’s if I don’t use the underground. Perhaps that fare is only available if I change at Wimbledon for the infrequent Thameslink service? Or would my suggested walking route above work too? Or is there a dispensation because of the Thameslink disruptions (there are no direct trains between Waterloo East and London Bridge until August 2016)?

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    • Hi Andrew,

      Sorry for the delay replying. I’m not entirely sure whether this will work or not. I think it might work on contactless; I think it probably won’t work on Oyster because there is no NR only fare defined for Kingston to Southwark. If you do try it I’d be interested to know the results.

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18. In response to my own question:
    The fastest, most obvious route from Kingston to St Pancras is changing at Vauxhall for the Victoria line. This cost £5.10, as per the online single fare finder.
    On my return journey I took the Thameslink service from St Pancras to Blackfriars, then walked to Southwark, through the station to Waterloo East and Waterloo, then onto the first train to Kingston. The cost was just £3.80!

    I’m not sure whether this means we can chain OSIs, or whether this is a special dispensation because trains from Waterloo East aren’t stopping at London Bridge. Next time I’ll try walking direct from Waterloo to Blackfriars, skipping the intermediate stations.

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    • Hi Andrew,

      You can chain OSIs together. What matters is whether there is a fare between the start point and each intermediate exit point via the route you are taking. If you start at St Pancras then all the OSIs happen before you leave zone 1 and the system can still charge the correct fare when you get to Kingston in zone 6. The other way round you might hit a problem when you exit at Southwark.

      If you walk between Waterloo NR and Blackfriars NR then it will be treated as two journeys because there is no active OSI between those stations.

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19. Hi Mike, I finally had the opportunity to do the return journey: travelling from Kingston to Waterloo, exit Waterloo, through Waterloo East, through Southwark, then walking down Blackfriars Road to catch a train to St Pancras. I was only charged £3.80.

    As you point out this only works if the fare exists, which in this case it does. Oddly enough, the equivalent fare from Feltham / Whitton / Twickenham doesn’t exist.

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    • Thanks for the info, Andrew.

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20. It appears Sutton has an OSI with itself if that makes sense. I made a journey from St Pancras to Sutton on Thameslink yesterday and was outside the station for only a few moments before the-entering and catching a southern service to Victoria. Sadly it appears to have continued the 1 journey causing me to exceed the maximum journey time charging me 2 single fares @£5.40 each. Is this common at BR stations. I was outside the barriers for only a couple of minutes.

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    • Hi Rob,

      Did you touch out and back in again at gates, or valiadtors? If it was gates then I’m surprised. If it was a validator then you need to wait 2 minutes before starting a new journey.

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21. It was at the gates, i went outside the station, it did register a tap out and in at the right place. i contacted tfl and they have happily removed the additional charges without question as it was obvious on the statement what i had done. I did find it quite odd, given Sutton isn’t on the list, something i shall look out for in future.

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    • Hi Rob,

      It’s possible that an emergency OSI had been set there for some reason. Normal OSIs don’t allow re-entry via the same gateline.

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22. Thanks for this, I wanted to see if I could walk from Acton town to South Acton, but seeing as I’ll be charged twice I’ll go for a direct interchange but longer journey.

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    • Hi Ethan,

      Acton Town to South Acton is an annoying edge case. It’s too far for a normal OSI, certainly within zones 1-4, but the convoluted changing required otherwise means that it can be worthwhile. I did ask TfL for details of people actually doing it and there are a few, but probably not enough to warrant adding the interchange to the database.

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23. I would welcome the option to do an OSI for Liverpool Street NR – Moorgate LU/NR — absurd to have to negotiate all the stairs at Liverpool Street to get the Circle/H&C/Met line for just one stop, when it can be walked in under ten minutes. At times when trains are not regular, walking would, in fact, be faster.

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    • You can always suggest it to TfL. Moorgate and Liverpool Street are about to be joined as part of the Elizabeth line so it may soon be a moot point.

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24. Interesting(ish) observation – on PAYG the following is charged:

    16:27 London Bridge – Liverpool Street 16:40
    16:42 Liverpool Street –

    £2.40 and £7.80 [Maximum Fare] (total £10.20).

    It seems the OSI isn’t preserved if a touch out doesn’t happen on the second journey – I would have expected to be charged £7.80 (since the OSI is complied with at the point of touching in at the next barrier).

    This isn’t the case with Travelcards if you don’t touch out (as I used to have one), it’s unique to PAYG.

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    • Hi Chris,

      This is the result of the way the system works. Whenever you touch in the system deducts the maximum fare. When you touch out the adjustment takes into account the actual fare and any amount previously deducted. It is also the case with travelcards, except that a maximum fare is only deducted on touch in outside of the zones covered by the travelcard.

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25. Thanks. That makes a lot more sense, explained that way!

    I filled in the online refund page with the actual last stop, and it has recalculated the whole thing including the OSI, which is quite impressive.

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26. Hi Mike. Thanks for this. Was wondering about the details regarding something you mentioned a bit further up the comment chain: OSI chaining. Is there a known maximum limit set for how many times this can be done in a certain time period, and what other limitations are there?

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    • Hi Jim,

      As Gary said, but note that the maximum journey time is for the eventual journey from start to finish. An extreme example would be touching in at Upminster, travelling to Fenchurch Street, walk to Liverpool Street and travel to Romford. The OSI between Fen St and Liv St would combine the journeys together but they would be limited by the single zone maximum journey time from Upminster to Romford.

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      • If you want an extreme example of OSI combination, I actually discovered this site via a Youtube video by Geoff Marshall where he actually makes around 8 OSI’s in one journey. Well, he tries to but it fails due to the maximum time constraint. From what he tried, there should be no limit in the number of OSIs, just on the total journey time.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSpdyVg3zv0

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27. Hey Jim, the only limit would be the Maximum Journey time. So long as you don’t exceed that and get all the taps right there is no limit.

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28. Hey Mike,

    I’m planning on walking from Southwark (after exiting the station) to Blackfriars (LU) through Blackfriars (NR). I’m told that the system will adjust my fare accordingly and not charge for passing through Blackfriars NR so long as I touch my oyster at the relevant ticket gates. I was wondering if the OSIs between Southwark – Blackfriars NR and Blackfriars NR –
    Blackfriars LU will have any effect on this, and if it’d be a good idea to break the OSI before entering Blackfriars NR.

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    • Hi Tom,

      To be certain I’d need to know the whole journey you intend to make, from where you start before Southwark to where you end up after Blackfriars.

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29. Hi Mike,

    Ah, sure. I’m planning on starting at Twickenham, travelling up to Waterloo NR, changing to Waterloo LU, taking the Jubilee one stop to Southwark, walking to Blackfriars NR, passing through it to Blackfriars LU, and getting off at Mansion House.

    Just to be sure, I’ve had a look at the maximum journey time across 5 zones, and I’m certain I can do this within that time. I’m just a bit wary of the Blackfriars NR passthrough, given its OSIs with Southwark and Blackfriars LU.

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    • Hi Tom,

      The Blackfriars passthrough won’t give you any problems, you’ll be charged a Twickenham to Mansion House single of £6.70 peak or £4.80 off-peak. It’s not the route I’d take to make that journey though. In the peak it’s cheaper to change between NR and Underground at Vauxhall then travel via Victoria. That’s just £6.00 peak but still £4.80 off-peak. I don’t think it would take much longer, if at all, because the walking distance involved at Vauxhall is a lot less that at Waterloo and you save the walk from Southwark to Blackfriars as well.

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30. Hi Mike,
    I’m trying to find the easiest (cheap) route between Walthamstow Central and Covent Garden that doesn’t involve horrible steps (I will be alone with a buggy) or lots of walking (health issues) or a bus (as I would then have to pay twice) so I wondered if I could travel to Liverpool Street on TFL Rail then transfer to the central line to Tottenham Court Road (as it is step-free) all on one fare? I’m not sure how it works when you touch out from the national rail barriers then go in to the underground. Thanks.

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    • Hi Ally,

      Sorry for the delay, it’s been a manic week. It will all be one fare as long as you touch in to the Underground station within 20 minutes of touching out of the NR station. The other way you get 40 minutes as you might need to wait on the concourse. However, the easiest way is probably to take the Victoria line and change to the Piccadilly line at Finsbury Park where it is cross platform.

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31. Hi Mike,

    Great, thanks for the info.

    Ah, I chose that route because it was more scenic, but thanks for the info. If I’m travelling at peak times, I’ll probably go with your suggestion.

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32. Hi Mike,

    How could I go about intentionally breaking my OSI, without waiting for the time to run out?

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    • Hi Pete,

      The easiest way is to hop on a bus, touch in and then hop off again, although if you are not going to cap and haven’t got a travelcard then it will cost. What is the specific OSI involved and what is the journey?

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33. Thanks for providing this too, I struggle with things like this but you have made it very clear. So, essentially, if you eg can take less than 40 minutes changing from Waterloo underground to Waterloo overground railway station, then it assumes that you are making a single journey and charges accordingly?

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    • Yes, that’s right.

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34. Hello, just a quick question. How many out-of-station interchanges can one make in one journey?

    Say I wanted to take the Overground from Watford High Street to Kenton, tap out, walk to Northwick Park (OOSI-1), take the Metropolitan to Rayners Lane, change for Piccadilly to Sudbury Hill, walk over to Sudbury Hill Harrow (OOSI-2) and from there straight to London?

    Would the interchanges be counted or is there a limit of only one interchange per journey?

    Thank you!

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    • Hi Chris,

      You can make as many as you need for the journey. Just be careful not to exceed the maximum journey time from your origin to any of the exit points. In respect of the above, be aware that Sudbury Hill Harrow has a very infrequent service.

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35. Hi,

    Is there a way to break an OSI, other than tapping in at a bus? I don’t have a travelcard, and I’m not planning on capping, so it’ll cost.

    I’ll be taking the tube from home to Euston, popping out for under 20 minutes, then walking to Euston Square and taking the tube back home from there, to save myself the annoyance of doubling back on myself. I’d like to do this as fast as possible, so I’m not liking the idea of spending more than 20 minutes there for the OSI to expire.

    As the start and end destinations are both my home station in zone 4, I’m guessing if I don’t break the OSI, I’ll exceed the maximum journey time across 1 zone.

    Is there another way?

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    • Hi Tim,

      If you are using contactless then you don’t need to worry, the system will break the OSI for you to avoid registering a here to here journey. If it’s an Oyster card then there’s not a lot I can suggest other than using the same station at the Euston end. If I knew your start station and why using both stations at Euston is so favourable then I might be able to suggest something.

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36. @Mike, could @Tim not touch into Euston Square, immediately touch back out (and hence trigger a maximum fare), then enter again (refunding the maximum fare and starting a new journey), or would this not break the OSI as intended?

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    • Hi Daniel,

      The OSI overrides the same station exit functionality and it becomes a journey to Euston Square rather than Euston. Whether this matters depends on where Tim has come from, which he hasn’t given us.

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37. Hey there. Only recently found this site so it’s all a bit exciting! I’ve got a few OSI suggestions, all in South London.

    – Denmark Hill to Loughborough Junction, not even 20 mins walk. Negates having to wait at Elephant & Castle for Sutton Branch train via Herne Hill etc. Plus only one journey, not two.

    – Honor Oak Park to Crofton Park, 10 mins walk
    – Brockley to Nunhead, 10 mins walk

    Both of these connect the London Overground & Thameslink lines, with both connecting to Whitechapel & Farringdon respectively on Crossrail from December…

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    • Hi Shaun,

      You can always make suggestions to TfL.

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38. The TfL OSI raw data file (8 Jan 2017) shows a curious 10-minute interchange time permitted between Warwick Ave (which of course is in Zone 2) and “Zone 1.” Any idea what that could mean? Just curious. TY.

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    • Hi Dave,

      No, I don’t understand it at all. There’s another entry from South London too. I just ignore them.

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39. Hi Mike,

    Would it be possible to have this list updated for 2018? There seems to be a somewhat new OSI between Bayswater and Queensway that isn’t included in this list.

    Thanks

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    • Hi John,

      I’m seeking clarification as to whether this is in fact an Oyster OSI or something else.

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41. Hello,
    I’m hoping you can help me. My commute involves going from West Kensington station (zone 2) to Orpington station (zone 6). For this I can either go to Victoria and get on an overland train, or go to London Bridge, and change to a train, or I can go to Embankment, walk to Charing Cross and get on a train.
    Am I able to do this transition from a tube to a train at a zone 1 station (Victoria, London Bridge, Embankment/Charing Cross) using a zone 2-6 travelcard?
    I am not getting out at the zone 1 station, simply changing onto another train. It seems to me that this counts as “joining two journeys into one”, but I’m not sure.
    This is particularly confusing with the Embankment exit and Charing Cross re-entry, as I would be exiting the physical station of Embankment and going into Charing Cross, both of which are in zone 1.
    Please can you advise?
    Thanks!
    Laura

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    • Hi Laura,

      As explained on the FAQ page, you’ll need zone 1 on your travelcard if you travel via a station in zone 1.

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42. Don’t forget to update the date at the top of the page to November after deleting the OSI between Cannon Street NR and Mansion House LU.

    And don’t forget to add the change to the list of updates at the bottom of the page.

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    • Thanks Paul,

      There are some new additions that I’m just waiting on time details to add. Once I get those I’ll update everything properly. I just wanted to remove the defunct OSI straight away.

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43. Hi,

    I had a strange experience at Shadwell. I tapped into Shadwell Overground station by mistake, intending to board the Shadwell DLR. I touched out at Shadwell Overground, touched in at Shadwell DLR, and touched out at my final destination of Elephant and Castle.

    This has been charged as:

    ???? – 21:06 [No touch-in] to Elephant & Castle [London Underground] £3.65 £48.65

    —

    20:48 – 20:49 Shadwell [London Overground] to Shadwell DLR £1.60 £52.30

    20:49 Touch out, Shadwell DLR +£2.05 £52.30

    20:49 Touch out, Shadwell [London Overground] £0.00 £50.25

    20:48 Touch in, Shadwell [London Overground] £3.65 £50.25

    In other words, I’ve been charged the minimum fare for my in-and-out at Shadwell, the touch-in at the DLR was actaully registered as a touch-out (even though I’d already touched out!), and my touch out at Elephant and Castle attracted a maximum fare.

    Hopefully this can all be resolved, but it seems like something weird is happening with Continuation Exits. But I can’t see Shadwell (either of them!) on the continuation exit list, and I had hoped that EITHER my touch-out at Shadwell Overground would be merged with the touch-in at Shadwell DLR (since they are an OSI), OR I would have had the “45 minute rule” applied for same station exits.

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    • Hi Chris,

      Were you using a contactless payment card or an Oyster card? Is Shadwell Overground gated or are there validators?

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44. Hi,

    Shadwell Overground is gated (so I went through gates on the first entry and exit), but Shadwell DLR isn’t. I was using an Oyster card.

    Thanks!
    Chris

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    • Hi Chris,

      Well it’s an interesting one certainly. My best guess at the moment is that it took you less than a minute to walk between the two stations and the clocks were slightly out so it appeared as if you entered the DLR before you’d left the Overground. I’d certainly be interested to hear what the helpdesk have to say. You’ll need to get someone prepared to look at the exact seconds of each touch.

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45. Reply to old question Re Tom. What is the current P/OP Fare Twickenham to Vauxhall. Though If one wants to End up at Mansion House (Ignoring Secnic aspects) Then Just Go Waterloo and Waterloo City to Bank and Exit at appropriate exit- its step free too. From Waterloo there is nill real point in trying to find Jubillee to Southwark- depending on crowds either walk down The Cut or through Waterloo East and out the Southwark Exit.

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46. Last Friday, I took a trip from White City to Chancery Lane. Approximately 30 minutes after touching out at Chancery Lane, I touched in at Farringdon (Underground) and traveled to St John’s Wood. Oyster system treated my trip from White City to Chancery Lane, and from Farringdon to St John’s Wood as a single trip, as if an out-of-station interchange occurred between Chancery Lane and Farringdon, even though the two stations are not OSI stations.

    Today, I took a trip from Swiss Cottage to Chancery Lane. Approximately 30 minutes after touching out at Chancery Lane, I touched in at Farringdon (Underground) and traveled back to Swiss Cottage. Oyster system treated my trips as two incomplete journeys.

    I called Oyster and they issued me a refund, but couldn’t explain the phantom OSI between Chancery Lane and Farringdon.

    Any suggestion and advice? I plan to exit Chancery Lane and enter Farringdon a lot.

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    • Hi Abrahamus,

      It’ll be one of two reasons. Either there has been an EOSI set because of disruption, or it is a new OSI which isn’t supposed to be active yet. A number of additions were put into the system in readiness for the opening of the Elizabeth Line. It was too late to take them back out once the opening was postponed. I’d be interested to know exactly what the interchange times were when it has been treated as one journey, and if you’ve had a case since September where it didn’t combine them I’d like to know those times too.

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47. Hi Mike,

    Here’re the times. I searched past Oyster – I didn’t take any trips involving walking between Chancery Lane and Farringdon

    Friday, 30 November 2018
    14:49 – 16:03 White City to St John’s Wood
    16:03 Touch out, St John’s Wood
    15:42 Touch in, Farringdon
    15:12 Touch out, Chancery Lane
    14:49 Touch in, White City

    4 December
    12:08 Swiss Cottage
    12:33 Chancery Lane
    12:53 Farringdon
    ?? Missing Touch
    ###########
    ?? Missing Touch
    13:19 Swiss Cottage

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    • Hi Abrahamus,

      Thanks for that. You actually gained on your White City to St John’s Wood journey, of course. I’m seeking clarification about which sort of OSI it is, but my money is on a new EL related one.

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48. Hi Mike,

    Today I discovered another weird OSI at Farringdon. I traveled from Swiss Cottage to Farringdon, and 28 minutes after touching out at Farringdon, I touched in again and traveled back to Swiss Cottage. The OSI time cap at Farringdon was advertised as 10 minutes, and the OSI is supposed to be between Underground and National Rail gates.

    14:01 Swiss Cottage
    14:19 Farringdon
    14:47 Farringdon
    ??:?? Missing Touch

    ??:?? Missing Touch
    15:15 Swiss Cottage

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    • Hi Abraham,

      Thanks for this. That points very strongly to there being an EOSI operating at Farringdon, possibly including Chancery Lane too. I’ll follow this up with my contacts at TfL.

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49. The new tube map at http://content.tfl.gov.uk/standard-tube-map.pdf now clearly identifies pairs of stations within easy walking distance.

    OSIs exist on your list for all of those – except for one. Swiss Cottage to South Hampstead is shown as walking distance but there is no matching OSI on your list.

    Has this OSI been accidentally missed from your list, or are TfL publicising an interchange without an OSI – which doesn’t seem fair.

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    • Hi Paul and metheth,

      That’s an interesting observation. It’s not on the master list on the TfL website so it’s not missing from my list. More likely is that it should be considered to be added in the near future.

      As for the Heathrow stations, they are joined by two thick lines which is the standard way of joining two parts of the same station on different lines. Look at Victoria as another example. Whilst in theory someone from Hounslow may want to travel to Hayes and Harlington, the premium fare charged between Hayes and Heathrow would put most people off. For that reason I don’t see TfL encouraging interchange at the airport.

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50. @Paul Balmer in addition to your point, Heathrow T23 and T4 are now listed as interchanges between the Picc and TfL rail… but as far as I remember there hasn’t been an OSI introduced there.

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51. Hi Mike, I see your point (re Heathrow) however I still find it highly misleading since at every other use of it (Clapham J, Victoria, Paddington) it’s a valid interchange ie you can change trains there and a through fare is charged (tram notwithstanding). Moreover in the May 2018 edition of both the tube&rail and tube maps, the line was certainly not there as far as I know (showing Heathrow as separate albeit nearby stations), so that may be something that needs looking into!

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52. An interesting idea to add OSI’s to the map.
    It is by no means comprehensive I can immediately see 3 that are missing.
    a) West Ruislip – Ickenham
    b) Canary Wharf – Heron Quays and
    c) Warren Street – Euston Square

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    • Hi Malcolm,

      Yes, I spotted those too. The West Ruislip one isn’t within 10 minutes walk, they only added it as an OSI due to the lack of local bus routes. The other two should definitely be shown.

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53. A few more additions came into effect on 2nd January 2019, though TfL haven’t uploaded an updated spreadsheet as yet:

    Bond Street (LU) – Oxford Circus (LU)
    Canary Wharf (LU) – Poplar (DLR)
    Canary Wharf (LU) – West India Quay (DLR)

    The list also includes a number of piers where you can make a same pier change for some reason.

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    • Hi Barry,

      I’d be interested to see this list if you have it. However, I do have to dispute some of what you’ve mentioned.

      Bond Street to Oxford Circus has been live since September last year and I’ve actually managed to make the interchange within the 5 minutes allowed. As things currently stand there is no reason to want to make that interchange because every potential change can be made within one stop of Bond Street. When it will be worthwhile is when the Elizabeth Line opens along with the entrance to Bond Street just round the corner from Oxford Circus. I’m happy not to include this OSI until it has a use.

      The other two interchanges you mention are actually with Canary Wharf EL station, not the LU one. Obviously they won’t be doable until the EL opens.

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54. Hi Mike,
    Thanks for the fantastic site. Got an interesting question. My girlfriend will be making a journey on Friday from Stratford to Gatwick Airport. She’ll be getting the tube to St Pancras at around 9am, then Thameslink to Gatwick at 09:40. She will be using Oyster with a linked railcard. Will the OSI between the underground and Thameslink apply in this case?

    The timings mean that she will be starting her journey in the peak, but completing the expensive bit of her journey in the off peak period. A peak journey from Stratford to Gatwick is £17.50. A peak journey from Stratford to St Pancras is £2.90, an off peak journey from St Pancras to Gatwick is £5.50 with a railcard, for a total of £8.40.

    I’m wondering if the oyster system is clever enough to know this and not apply the OSI? Or would this be a case where it’s actually cheaper to do the first leg of the journey with a different card?

    Thanks!

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    • Hi Craig,

      It won’t know to break the OSI, so I’d use a contactless card for the first bit and the Railcard linked Oyster for the main bit. The alternative is to touch on a bus at St Pancras which will cost £1.50 but will break the journey.

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55. Hi Mike,

    Looks like there is no OSI between Stratford International NR and either the DLR or the regular Stratford station. I’m guessing that travelling to St Pancras International on the Javelin would involve a single to Stratford / Stratford International DLR and then another single from Stratford International NR to St Pancras International?

    Thanks,

    Dan

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    • Hi Dan,

      The fares between Stratford International NR and St Pancras International are special and cannot be joined with other travel at either end. There is also no OSI between the SE High Speed platforms and anywhere else in St Pancras or Kings Cross.

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56. Am I imagining it, or was an OSI between City Thameslink and St Pauls removed? I did that journey today and got charged for two journeys. Seems bizarre that an OSI doesn’t exist, too, given how close they are!

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57. Just did a bit more digging – looks like there has never been an OSI (I was mis-remembering the plans to add an underground tunnel connecting the two!).

    Still seems like a weird omission though.

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    • Hi Chris,

      I couldn’t find one either. Agree there might be journey opportunities, maybe it’ll get added at some stage.

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58. Hi Mike!
    Im struggling to find anywhere whether you can apply OSI on your Travelcard, unless there’s an obvious answer..? I will be travelling to work from Mill Hill Broadway to Uxbridge, so zone 4-6 but have to change at West Hampstead (zone 2) which is on the OSI list. Will i be able to use a zone 4-6 travelcard (so around £111 per month) with OSI at West Hampstead somehow applied?
    Many thanks in advance for your time.

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    • Hi Tatjana,

      I think you’ve slightly misunderstood what OSIs do. They join together two journeys using different lines so they can be charged as one. If you were using PAYG to make your journey in the peak then Mill Hill Broadway to West Hampstead Thameslink would cost £3.10, West Hampstead to Uxbridge a further £2.80, but if the journeys are joined together it only costs £4.40.

      A travelcard has to cover all the zones that your journey passes through, even if you only change trains. So to make this journey with a travelcard you’ll need zones 2-6.

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59. Partly prompted by the suggestions on this page, I emailed TfL customer service asking if they would consider adding an OSI between Bethnal Green Overground and Whitechapel.

    The reply was a bit mixed: they seemed to get confused about which stations I was referring to – I’ll need to clarify that. But more interestingly, they mentioned the following:

    “There’s a technical limit to the number of routing points which are available, and this limit has almost been reached. So new OSIs are only added that will offer benefit to the most users.” (I’ve paraphrased.)

    I thought this sounded fair enough, e.g. I’m aware that there are some rather “surprising” technical limitations to the Oyster system (e.g. the availability of only 4 bits for the number of zones, giving a maximum of 16 zones).

    However, I saw Geoff Marshall’s video today showing that London’s least-used OSI had only *48*(!) users in the whole of 2019, and this made me wonder:

    – Are these OSI usage stats available anywhere already? Searching didn’t turn up much. If not, I suppose a FOI request could be made to TfL.

    – If it could be demonstrated that a proposed OSI would “probably” be used more than this least-used one, do you think TfL could be convinced to implement it?

    – If the OSI list did reach its limit, do you think TfL would consider “removing” the least-used OSI’s if new ones were proposed that had more potential users, for some kind of trial period? (Obviously this could be difficult for them, because all the regular users of the least-used OSI would be extremely annoyed!)

    I’ll get back to TfL CS at some point mentioning the above to see what they think about it. As a number of other commenters here have pointed out, a Bethnal Green Overground – Whitechapel OSI could be extremely useful.

    PS thanks Mike for maintaining this very useful website!

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    • Hi Joe,

      The lists of usage have in fact come from FOI requests. Both responses that I’m aware of have been covered by this site at the following two posts:

      https://www.oysterfares.com/2018/08/most-used-osis/
      https://www.oysterfares.com/2019/06/most-used-osis-may-2019/

      Sadly Geoff didn’t quite get the story right about the least used OSI, but that wasn’t the main point of his video. The figures available cover a random 4 week period so probably need to be multiplied by 13 to get a yearly picture. That said, they will get rid of OSIs if they are no longer required and that may apply to a couple of entries towards the bottom of the list.

      I’m sure that there is a limit to the number of interchanges available and I can well believe that it is close to being reached. However, Bethnal Green to Whitechapel is crying out to be included, especially since LO now operate services at both stations. I’ll try and put forward a submission myself in the next few weeks.

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60. Hello,
    you mention “the helpdesk” in your reply to the very first comment on this page. Would you mind telling me the email address?
    Thanks

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    • Hi Daniel,

      There’s a form you can fill in under “help and contacts” on the TfL website. Alternatively oysterenquiries @ tfl.gov.uk should work (without the spaces).

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61. The latest conversation has moved to our forum and can be read at https://oysterfares.com/topic/lack-of-monument-to-liverpool-street-osi/.

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62. The recently released redacted version of TRU154 (top of page 3) mentions the addition of an OSI between Liverpool Street NR and Moorgate as part of the September fares revisions.

    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ticketing_and_revenue_update_154/response/2778017/attach/3/TRU154%20Redacted.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

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    • Thanks for the heads up, Si. Unfortunately, if you read the whole section on this OSI you’ll see that it was defered to October 6th. I’m also not convinced that anything in that section actually happened (or will happen) because of the ongoing Cyber security alert. I’ll be keeping an eye out though.

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      • Hi, I can confirm that as of the 27th November there is still no OSI between Moorgate(LU I think) and Liverpool street NR. I got charged 2 fares for science

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        • Thanks for checking. I must say I’m not surprised.

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