One thing I’ve always strived to do with the fare finder on this site is to simplify the number of duplicate station entries. The TfL single fare finder lists Harrow & Wealdstone twice, for example, once as an Underground station and once as an Overground and National Rail station. There is only one station and the Underground and Overground trains use the same platforms. Thus on this site the station is only listed once with both LU and NR shown as modes (LO is part of NR).
The arrival of the Elizabeth line has added another level of complexity. TfL would like to see it as a new mode, separate from both Underground and National Rail. They do, however, concede that it is a National Rail service, especially when the East and West sections are rebranded on Tuesday. I would like to maintain EL as just another NR operator, but the position of EL within the Underground stations at Paddington and Liverpool Street has made that problematic. So, for the moment I have reluctantly added EL as a new mode which only covers the core section between Paddington and Abbey Wood. I’ll review this decision later in the year.
So, while the single fare finder lists Farringdon Underground Station, Farringdon National Rail Station and just Farringdon as three separate entries, this site’s fare finder just lists Farringdon with modes LU, NR and EL.
If you notice anything which maybe doesn’t seem right when using the fare finder in the coming days, please do create a topic in our forum and I will either try to explain, or potentially fix a bug, or make it clearer.
I don’t envy your decision!
By the way, the newly created EL stations (Canary Wharf through to Woolwich) fail on the JavaScript validation when trying to use them as origin or destination stations.
Looks like the issue is the existing regex test /\([DLN]/ which omits E as an option in the token group, so “(E…” fails.
I owe you a drink next time we meet. Thanks for the heads up, should be fixed now.
Hi Mike
Just playing around I see that Dartford to Liverpool Street (LU EL) has a default NR only fare with the NR+LU applying for various changes, basically anything that isn’t changing at Abbey Wood. If I try Dartford to Tottenham Court Road, it only gives me the LU+NR fare, surely changing at Abbey Wood would be just as valid on that route? Wouldn’t really help me at the moment as I will still need to change to the Central Line, but once Bond Street is open that will be an option.
Hi Nick,
Yes, there are lots of anomalies in the pricing when coming from late adopting NR services onto the EL. The worst example I’ve found is coming from (say) Elstree & Borehamwood and changing at Farringdon. West to Paddington is NR+LU as is Whitechapel, Canary Wharf and Custom House, but Liverpool Street, Woolwich and Abbey Wood are just NR as indeed is Farringdon of course.
Interestingly, the fares from Palmers Green on the Great Northern seem to be NR to all the stations between Farringdon and Abbey Wood (inclusive) but NR+LU for Tottenham Court Road and west.
For a zonal system, the fares from where I live half way between Palmers Green & Southgate are very complex. Depending on which Zone 4 station I start from, which Canary Wharf station I go to and whether I go through central London or via Stratford my peak fare can be £2.70, £3.40, £4,30, £4,60 or £6.30.
Thanks for this, and apologies for the delayed response. There do indeed seem to be some strange things going on east of Farringdon, and it isn’t at all consistent. I’m hoping to get answers to some questions after the bank holiday.
Hi Mike
I think I have unwittingly defrauded TfL!
On Wednesday I travelled from Dartford to Abbey Wood to transfer to the Elizabeth Line to central London. For some unknown reason they had crowd management systems in operation so the 20 or so people who came from the SE train had to take the scenic route at 7:30 in the morning, at least it wasn’t raining. What happened is I made the amateur mistake of not touching out but then touching back in and got charged a maximum fare. Next day I looked at my account and had one journey eligible for refund. I added the touch out at Abbey Wood and thought that was that. Later that day I touch in an got a refund. I had £5.50 as automated refund, being £4.70 difference between the maximum fare and a Dartford Abbey Wood fare and twice £0.40 for the daily refunds I get for the fare capping. I also had a helpdesk refund of £4.70, presumably the one I reported.
I wouldn’t worry about it, Nick.
What I am concerned about is sending you through gates to change between Southeastern and Elizabeth line. I accepted on the first day that that was a necessary evil, but it shouldn’t be happening now. Have you had to do this again since?
When I went on Thursday around the same time I just used one of the footbridges further down the platform, couldn’t have been easier. They had been blocked off on the Wednesday so everyone had to go up into the main ticket hall, down some stairs and back in, no queue though because there weren’t enough people. Staff looked a bit embarrassed but they were just doing what they were told to do. In the evening all the bridges were open.
I regularly travel to London to visit my parents in Putney. Next time I visit them I am thinking of trying the Elizabeth Line. I think I will take the Thameslink or Tube (Circle, H&C or Metropolitan Line) one stop from King’s Cross/St Pancras to Farringdon, EL to Paddington and then District Line to Putney Bridge or East Putney.
Will it make any difference in terms of what fare I will be charged using Oyster whether I take the Thameslink or the Tube from King’s Cross/St Pancras to Farringdon? In your article on new interchanges with the EL you say that you don’t need to leave and re-enter the station at Farringdon or pass through any gates or card readers when changing between the EL and either the Tube or Thameslink. In that case if you change at a station where this is the case, how can the system tell whether or not you used the EL?
Hi Alan,
Thameslink charge tube fares through the core so it won’t make any difference. Depending on where you are in the station you might need to touch out, cross the road and touch back in, but an OSI will join the journeys.
You may be aware of this already but I just tried the Fare Finder for Stratford to Ealing Broadway and it said there were no fares for that journey.
Hi Simon,
I’ve just checked now and all seems to be fine. Did you possibly select Stratford International (NR) rather than Stratford (NR/LU/DLR)?
No it was definitely Stratford (NR/LU/DLR). I tried it several times.
As you say it seems fine now.