Michael Tsang

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  • Michael Tsang
    Participant

    The street distance between the station entrances of West Brompton and Earl’s Court is just 461 m, shorter than a lot of OSIs in Central London. If I measure platform to platform, it is 740 m which takes about 9 to 12 minutes to walk between them. If I get off an eastbound District line train at Earl’s Court and head straight to the rear exit, while a companion goes to the platform of the opposite direction and wait for a train (which can take up to 5 minutes or even worse as the District line is notorious), I would have already entering the station at West Brompton by the time he gets on a train to Wimbledon.

    Michael Tsang
    Participant

    The existence of direct trains doesn’t preclude OSIs, examples include Euston (NR) to St Pancras (NR) or Aldgate to Aldgate East.

    Some navigation software, like Google Maps, recommend walking Earl’s Court and West Brompton for the purpose of changing between District and Mildmay lines.

    https://www.google.com.hk/maps/dir/Turnham+Green,+Chiswick,+London+W4+1QN/Clapham+Junction+Station,+Clapham+Junction/@51.4782413,-0.2633682,13z/am=t/data=!3m1!4b1!4m21!4m20!1m5!1m1!1s0x48760e3f1480c889:0x64c03a3daa0d97aa!2m2!1d-0.2544554!2d51.4951856!1m5!1m1!1s0x4876059bd2778d13:0x5784b843fc8df24d!2m2!1d-0.169492!2d51.4646378!2m5!5e1!5e2!6e0!7e2!8j1777053600!3e3!5i3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDQxNS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

    However, Citymapper thinks that taking the one-stop tube will arrive 9 minutes faster than walking it because it thinks that a 1-minute connection between opposite directions at Earl’s Court is possible, which, in my opinion, is a bit dodgy.

    https://citymapper.com/trip/signature?signature=eJydlUtP4zAQx79KlMsetgG%2F4iTceFS7Yh8g6IoDQpEVu623qd11nC0I8d3XTlpat0WgvVS1xzPzn9844%2Be4YiY%2BiSDANB1EMW8Ns1Irt4VIQdyOUNwtnmPGuRFN4%2F7HZ8KOjeCD6JZJZaNLPVWfmuhGM7f1XSuu1SD69S12zpXWhnc%2BKTwiFBYkHyTgCNIMk8wfUGwuvPm8Zospm0eXraq6%2FC%2FO%2BNuUUnHx6A4At6zFxIe6f465bCxTlffEBIeycUq96mqdtCAY%2BZyIZhnyKaUqnffqdAyOKfC7c807IUtWz%2Fy62QRAMO8D0F6z1aV4lLaTPZXNUlaza2Zm5RAVaeaFO4FiwYxtHTAvmOTgIRSZ5eAVbTxkpm7OdWusjz4VjC%2FZkzOkWb4lzBqmGtkdMbq1opQd2Pv4wsEwsrKxz%2BEqM3vKunqsXpSVbpW35uuNdYzrmtmxNvMyKOii5EPv%2B2rdKO1tD32xm26kRVgnBWEvepKwwGm63wr4fiu2%2FQ%2BAhhjtkqZboO9EY8%2BMni%2BsMwWoUYH%2FH3XYvwA0ehN0iPIuwLyt01tv90GDsMo85JxniPag0pQcAp2%2FAzoMcIg03SNN0Bbq1ff8%2BjkHtDPwIdo%2FZM3nziGAvdvDADd%2BE3eA9CqgvSO1vCr5z7sDV5vAnXpTEkB30w2vhlt3uccu3WZQ7CQZjvRS7XcGHSPyTmuom5x9mrxw08bDWbg7KcqF6IUi7PtgxGQVs50ldTeU14SlmpRG%2FGkdEgfKHyGYVTTFJBmLAiYEZkWSE1AkAFBRkQxVDOTxVheC12A9MqKvcjL9wCtQIIBX8xTD4BEYtUb5R%2BCLEaJ%2FAazsLQggmgCSIDSCxQkCJwB8BtD9Hl8Mr09vRuXpyAf6K0zTV52%2B%2FANm%2BgQF

    It wouldn’t matter if my Oyster card has capped for zones 1-2 or zones 1-3 on that day though, but it matters otherwise. Also, there is another cheap route which is surprisingly fast to travel from Ravenscourt Park back home, i.e. Ravenscourt Park – Richmond – Clapham Junction – East Croydon. I am surprised that despite looking circuitous on a map, travelling through zones 2-3-4-3-2-3-4-5, its total time is just a few minutes longer than via Victoria and saves about 10 minutes compared to changing at Earl’s Court / West Brompton / Clapham Junction. Why is the route via Richmond so fast?

    Michael Tsang
    Participant

    Is there an OSI between Earl’s Court and West Brompton?

    in reply to: Farringdon to Gunnersbury Fare anomaly? #8778
    Michael Tsang
    Participant

    I suspect there is a mispricing here again.

    The £3.9 fare is supposed to be “Travelling on London Underground and National Rail changing at Waterloo and Richmond (or Victoria, Clapham Junction and Richmond)” but in the Oyster system, I think that the Blackfriars OSI and other London Terminals OSI (except Vauxhall, E&C or Battersea) use the same code on the card. As a result, it is indistinguishable with a Waterloo interchange from the card.

    Please complain to TfL and request a refund.

    in reply to: Witham to Canary Wharf contactless issue #8777
    Michael Tsang
    Participant

    I suspect there is a mispricing. The mistake is that they used the Witham – London fare + zone 1-2 to construct the fare to Canary Wharf (Underground), but Witham – Stratford fare + zone 2 fare to construct the fare to Canary Wharf (Elizabeth line).

    Michael Tsang
    Participant

    I have now got the numbers I want in FOI-4165-2526:

    For cards affected by the Zone 1 charge:

    On a diversion weekend:
    No journeys between the stops on the diversionary route and the eastern section of the Mildmay line with a pink touch at Willesden Junction;
    3233 journeys between the stops on the diversionary route and the eastern section of the Mildmay line without a pink touch at Willesden Junction (the journeys which I consider being overcharged).

    On a normal weekend:
    8 journeys between the stops on the diversionary route and the eastern section of the Mildmay line with a pink touch at Willesden Junction (the intended use of the pink reader fare);
    196 journeys between the stops on the diversionary route and the eastern section of the Mildmay line without a pink touch at Willesden Junction (for which travel via Zone 1 is assumed);
    6792 journeys between the stops on the normal route and the eastern section of the Mildmay line.

    The above number clearly shows that, when the diversion is not in place, the amount of journeys taken between the stops on the diversionary route and the eastern section of Mildmay line is only a tiny fraction compared to when the diversionary route is active. In contrast, the diversionary route still carries half of the normal traffic, which can now totally justify the recent enhancement of the diversionary service to 4 tph (which used to be 2 tph), compared to 8 tph on the normal route. It also means that half of the normal Mildmay line traffic is now overcharged due to the diversion, 16 times of the number of Zone 1 journeys on a normal weekend whose revenue needs to be protected. As these journeys are rarely made without the diversion, but with significant traffic when the diversion is active, the revenue protection need, as such, is clearly disproportionate to the detriment of normal Zone 2 only passengers who are forced to use the Zone 2 only diversionary route and getting overcharged because the normal route is closed.

    For journeys involving Swiss Cottage / South Hampstead:
    On a diversion weekend, there were 280 journeys where a pair of touches were made between the stations within 20 minutes, while on a normal weekend, there were just 89, which means that this signposted “fake-OSI” serves a real interchange function between the diversionary Mildmay line route and the Jubilee line, fulfilled by West Hampstead under normal circumstances, penalising passengers again due to the diversion.

    I will write to my MP soon about this matter as I live in the affected area, using all of the stations between Willesden Junction and Gospel Oak regularly.

    Michael Tsang
    Participant

    https://www.london.gov.uk/md3464-march-2026-transport-london-fare-changes

    The new fares are here.

    Travelcard prices and fare caps are frozen because they follow National Rail fare policy.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by Michael Tsang.
    in reply to: Avoiding zone 1 via Primrose Hill #8648
    Michael Tsang
    Participant

    Unfortunately that FOI cannot be processed because the Oyster data is only retained for 8 weeks, so it is not possible to provide the data for a whole year.

    I have just made another FOI which focuses on two specific weekends in January 2026, one with the diversion and one with normal service, which asks for count
    – on the diversion route without a touch at Willesden Junction on a diversion day
    – on the diversion route with a touch at Willesden Junction on a diversion day
    – on the diversion route without a touch at Willesden Junction on a normal day
    – on the diversion route with a touch at Willesden Junction on a normal day
    – on the normal route on a normal day
    – entries at South Hampstead after exit at Swiss Cottage (or vice versa) on a diversion day
    – entries at South Hampstead after exit at Swiss Cottage (or vice versa) on a normal day

    Michael Tsang
    Participant

    I have received the reply of my enquiry and TL;DR it is not going to do anything and tell me to phone up for a refund.

    Thank you for your web form of 3 January about fares in relation to Mildmay diversions through Queen’s Park.

    Firstly, I am genuinely sorry if you have been inconvenienced on your journeys when a Mildmay line diversion has been in place.

    Quite simply, and having spoken to a colleague of mine with many years of experience on fares, whilst we thank you for (and note) your suggestion, it will not be possible to make the fare adjustments you request. I know you state that Mildmay line diversions will become more commonplace, but, at the time of writing, I cannot find any information that this will be the case.

    My advice to you, when there is a rare Mildmay line diversion and you believe you have paid a fare amount higher than it should be, is to make a journey refund claim. From looking at your account, I can see that you are familiar with calling us up and lodging a refund claim with telephony agents.

    Thanks again for contacting us. If there is anything else we can help you with, please reply to this email. Alternatively, you can call us on 0343 222 1234 and we’ll be happy to help you.

    I plan to escalate this matter. TfL has the ability to activate emergency OSIs on a temporary basis which can be a short term solution to the South Hampstead interchange before they bother to fix the fares, while the direct train problem will require a fare update cycle to fix.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Michael Tsang.
    Michael Tsang
    Participant

    I travelled a round trip on this route today and a total of £5.90 was deducted from my Oyster card with National Railcard discount (£1.30 + £1.90 + £1.90 + £0.80).

    I’ll write a complaint to TfL with the web form, as the in-car diagram and announcement on the Mildmay line train when approaching South Hampstead confirm that these stations are now an official pair of interchange stations.

    Michael Tsang
    Participant

    I’ll also follow up this matter with an FOI in February to ask how many people do this South Hampstead / Swiss Cottage interchange within 20 minutes on the diversion days, compared to normal days.

    A previous FOI was posted on the issue of overcharging on direct trains but it was beyond the 8-week limit for the Oyster data to be retained, and now there are enough diversion days within an 8-week window for this matter to be seriously investigated.

    https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-2785-2223

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Michael Tsang.
    Michael Tsang
    Participant

    Since the Overground line renaming all the official materials have shown South Hampstead / Swiss Cottage as an interchange inside both Lioness line and Jubilee line trains, and after this week long diversion, there are still three weekends in the coming two months where this diversionary route is used.

    An unusual London Overground trip is possible during Betwixmas

    Michael Tsang
    Participant

    If things aren’t fixed by TfL I am planning to raise this matter to London Travelwatch and possibly my MP as it is clearly an important issue for my area.

    This diversionary route has become much more important over the last few years and has been used much more frequently, from just a few weekend a year with 30-minute frequency to now a whole week with 15-minute frequency.

    Swiss Cottage / South Hampstead serves the exact same function as West Hampstead when the Mildmay line is diverted.

    Michael Tsang
    Participant

    The Lioness line diagram and announcement now officially shows South Hampstead / Swiss Cottage as an interchange.

    I plan to try this interchange once this week and, if it results in two fares, I’ll make a complaint to TfL using this diagram as evidence.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 4 weeks ago by Michael Tsang.
    Michael Tsang
    Participant

    Unfortunately it resulted in a pair of incomplete journey charge, because the time between the entry at Hackney and the exit at Willesden Green exceeded the maximum journey time, as the result of joining.

    There are two concourses at Oxford Circus. One for exits 1-4 which are entry only, the other for exits 5-8 which are exit only, that meant I must exit at the concourse for exits 5-8 and enter at the other concourse.

    Michael Tsang
    Participant

    I tried the reverse journey (touched the platform reader after alighting a Great Northern train, changed at West Hampstead and exited at Willesden Green) the past weekend and there was no problem.

    in reply to: Overcharging breaking OSI at West Hampstead #8482
    Michael Tsang
    Participant

    A refund has been given after I contacted the customer service.

    I’ll use two cards if I plan to do such journeys in the future.

    in reply to: Overcharging breaking OSI at West Hampstead #8481
    Michael Tsang
    Participant

    Sunday, 05 October 2025 £9.00 daily total
    21:29 – 21:40 West Hampstead Thameslink [National Rail] to Willesden Green £1.90 £14.85
    21:40 Touch out, Willesden Green +£2.75 £14.85
    21:32 Touch in, West Hampstead [London Underground] £0.00 £12.10
    21:29 Touch out, West Hampstead Thameslink [National Rail] £0.00 £12.10
    21:29 Touch in, West Hampstead Thameslink [National Rail] £4.65 £12.10
    20:28 – 21:29 Gatwick Airport to West Hampstead Thameslink [National Rail] £7.10 £16.75
    21:29 Touch out, West Hampstead Thameslink [National Rail] +£1.85 £16.75
    20:28 Touch in, Gatwick Airport £8.95 £14.90
    20:28 Oyster helpline refund, Gatwick Airport +£9.30 £23.85

    in reply to: Overcharging breaking OSI at West Hampstead #8478
    Michael Tsang
    Participant

    This reason is I avoided breaking the OSI by means of tapping in and out at the Underground station, because the tap in at the Underground station would reopen the journey rather than starting a new one, and when I tapped out the fare would be adjusted to the fare from Gatwick to West Hampstead (Underground).

    However, this record looks like the existence of OSI overruled the fact that a same station exit between 0-2 minutes is cancelled within 45 minutes, which can prove problematic if one accidentally enters the wrong station among a set of OSIs to start his journey.

    I also tried entering a station before 09:30, realised that it was too early and exited immediately (where a peak maximum fare was charged) and re-entered after 09:30, and the correct off-peak fare was finally deducted.

    I would have used KeyGo for the Thameslink leg if I knew I would travel this route to prevent problems, but unfortunately I was trying to catch a Southern train for Clapham Junction (for Kensal Rise, where a through Oyster fare was cheapest) and the train door was closed in front of me.

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by Michael Tsang.
    in reply to: Plusbus and 60+ or Freedom Passes #8476
    Michael Tsang
    Participant

    I think you can buy Elstree & Borehamwood +Bus with a Travelcard issued by National Rail which has Elstree & Borehamwood printed as the origin (Elstree & Borehamwood – London Zones 1-6), to satisfy the requirement that the station must be printed on the rail ticket.

    in reply to: Plusbus and Contactless/Oyster #8475
    Michael Tsang
    Participant

    You can’t buy PlusBus with Oyster. However, KeyGo supports PlusBus fare at Gatwick Airport and charges the equivalent of an Oyster fare for your train journey.

    Michael Tsang
    Participant

    The records suggested that there was a wrong extension fare set at £4.15 between Zone 2 and Leighton Buzzard, from the following observations:

    The return journey was charged at £4.15
    The outbound journey was capped
    When £4.15 was taken off the outbound journey, the result was a Zone 1-2 cap at £8.90

    So the system charged a Zone 1-2 cap and the extension fare both way.

    in reply to: Ealing Broadway pink reader location #8230
    Michael Tsang
    Participant

    There was no overcharge as the default fare for my journey (Heathrow Terminal 2 & 3 to North Acton) did not involve zone 1.

    in reply to: Ealing Broadway pink reader location #8227
    Michael Tsang
    Participant

    The London bound EL platform was closed on the day I travelled because of engineering works. The readers on the Underground platforms were yellow.

    in reply to: CRS code for London Underground stations #8225
    Michael Tsang
    Participant

    Some (but not all) are used in the National Rail timetable and also ticket retailing systems, like ZEL for Elephant & Castle (Underground) and ZCM for Chesham.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 82 total)