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According to this reply there are platform oyster validators at West Drayton for you to tap your Oyster, which means you don’t have to go all the way to ticket barriers to do the trick: https://oysterfares.com/topic/elizabeth-line-split-fare/#post-5172
Your paper ticket does not have to be validated at West Drayton especially if you hold a season’s ticket, so your only hassle is to dash out at West Drayton both ways to tap your Oyster, which shouldn’t necessitate a 15-minute wait.
One of the major purpose of out-of-zones Contactless ticket payment is to protect revenue for train operating companies outside TfL (and this is basically the ticketing requirements when Elizabeth line extends West) so I’m afraid you can only split your fares by touching in and out at West Drayton no matter you hold a paper ticket or not between Maidenhead and West Drayton.
However, I don’t think you need two bank cards to split your journey at West Drayton unless you need to tap back in within 2 minute time out time.
OMG, I really need a second chance of edit!
On second reading of fares, it IS NOT cheaper to travel to Euston on Anytime Day return ticket and then take the tube on contactless, as the Euston fare costs 50p more on Anytime Day return than to Kensal Green, but of course other combination of fares exist subjected to time restrictions.
https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=LBZ&dest=EUS&period=20231001
https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=LBZ&dest=KNL&period=20231001I’ve just checked with the Yellow Pages and Pink Pages of the Routeing Guide https://data.atoc.org/routeing-guide and the route point calculator https://data.atoc.org/rp_calc seems to indicate that the ANY PERMITTED ticket ISN’T valid via Euston because tickets to Euston are priced more expensively, so I don’t think the automated barriers would accept that also because you are in effect doing a double back on the route.
So indeed, it would be cheaper for you to get a day return to Euston and use Contactless to Kensal Green or Shepherd’s Bush.
That’s brilliant because the bus fare doesn’t distinguish between peak and off peak, the bus fares are always counted towards off peak cap even before 0930!
As I’ve understood the system, you can tap in with card and device at the same time, as long as it’s one person one card/device.
Also note that each card/device does its own capping calculation.
I think Mark Dunn has mistaken what TfL meant by separate cards/devices.
To TfL, they see separate numbers for each card/device as they all have original or virtual card numbers. TfL doesn’t care which account it’s debited to as long as the payment request goes through, as it’s alluded in this paragraph:
If you have a joint bank account, you can usually both use your contactless cards to travel as each card will be charged separately.
IIRC your rail journeys in peak time will be calculated separately from your off peak cap if you’re using contactless at least, so when you get to Amersham you should be capped at more than £14.9 but hopefully less than £21.2.
As for Oyster, I’m not sure whether such separate calculations exist on the day, or whether you have reached £14.9 in z1-6 before heading to Amersham, I think instead of capping less than £21.2 you will be capped at that price and then get a refund afterwards. But Mike should enlighten us.
Happy Easter!
Alternatively, MrKlaw, if your daughter commits to commute five days a week (a pretty tall order these days!), then a monthly seasons ticket between Windsor & Eton Central and Zones 3-6 Travelcard would cost £300 and this would be marginally cheaper than the £12 from windsor to EB and £3.60 for two singles to Chiswick Park and back costing £15.60, even working 4 days a week would remove the savings.
A zone 3-6 Travelcard carried on GWR Touch smartcard is NOT useful for any rail trips outside the zones (including crossing zone 1 or 2) because you can’t add London PAYG facility on Touch smartcard. OTOH it should be useful for bus journeys since any Travelcard is valid on all London buses.
The most likely reason why your daughter was asked for a top up is because she traveled to the zones outside the ones set in Travelcard, which she incurred a negative balance that had to be cleared before travelling again.
For other possible reasons of such glitch I’d defer to Mike.
I’ve just done the mental arithmetic and if the buses were taken when the z1-2 cap was about to hit he’d have saved a pound.
According to Greater Anglia website, you can add day travelcard to your GA smartcard:
https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/tickets-fares/season-tickets/smartcard
What tickets can I get on my Smartcard?
Your Smartcard will let you load up to 5 Smart tickets at a time.Travelling Monday to Friday – Season ticket (Weekly, Monthly, Custom Period and Annual) and Travelcard Season tickets.
Travelling every now and then – Flexi Season ticket
Travelling very little – Anytime Day tickets , Off-Peak Day tickets and TravelcardsI think it’s important to buy a ticket between Brentwood and Liverpool Street during the peak hours and select travelcard as your delivery option, but you’d need to be able to give your card number to receive the order.
As you are paying with Oyster with 16-25 Railcard discount encoded instead of contactless, there is no such thing as post hoc extension fare like contactless, you will be considered as capping at z1-6 once you made the journey from/to West Drayton.
Using your hypothetical example, assuming you travel your whole itinerary in reverse order:
Camden Road to Stratford: £1.05
Stratford to London Bridge: £1.70
London Bridge to Belsize Park: £1.70
Hampstead Heath to West Drayton: £1.25
U3 bus: £1.65 (not capped at z1-2 because you went to z6)
423 bus: £0 (hopper fare)
Total: £7.35 below off-peak z1-6 railcard cap of £9.30If you were holding adult Oyster or contactless:
Camden Road to Stratford: £1.60
Stratford to London Bridge: £2.60
London Bridge to Belsize Park: £2.60
Hampstead Heath to West Drayton: £1.90
U3 bus: £1.65 on Oyster (but would be partially refunded later) / £0.90 on Contactless (as you have now reached z1-2 cap with a z3-6 extension fare)
423 bus: £0 (hopper fare)
Total: £9.60 (£0.75 will be refunded on Oyster after two weeks or when £1.50 refund is reached)I’ve actually thought for a bit and realised that instead of using East Midlands Railway, we should use Greater Anglia smart card as a Travelcard carrier instead!
From their website/app, set a journey from Brentwood to Liverpool Street departing in morning rush and then select the Travelcard option, then you can get an Anytime Zone 1-9 Travelcard on a smartcard costing £25.70 w/o Railcard discounts.
As for the final question, of course you can add 16-25 Railcard into your student Oyster, in that case you will get ⅓ off in off peak PAYG fares and also discounted daily caps.
I think you might have mistaken about the capping system.
There’s a specific all zones bus and tram capping (as you said at £4.95) because all buses and trams in London are of one fare hence counted as one zone with no zonal distinction, and there are zonal capping that includes underground and trains, just like the Travelcard preceding Oyster and contactless ticketing.
So, if you take buses anywhere but just the underground in zone 1 and 2, you’d be capped at £7.70, the fact that you take the bus outside zone 1 and 2 notwithstanding.
There is one option to save more in tram fares if you’re staying in IKEA for say half an hour: consider Hopper Fare function, which would make two rides for the fare of one!
Well, tram journey isn’t counted as part of rail but as flat bus fare of £1.65, so you can’t find the fare directly but rather as a composite of two fares, one of National Rail and one of tram.
According to the rail map and service pattern I believe there are two choices of trains from Ewell East to connect to the tram, one more frequent to West Croydon (train bound for London Bridge via Sutton) which is in zone 5, one less frequent but that of shorter journey to Mitcham Junction (train bound for Victoria) which is in zone 4.
So the train fares touching in Ewell East are as follows:
Mon-Fri 0630-0930 and 1600-1900
To West Croydon: £3.00
To Mitcham Junction: £3.40All other times
To West Croydon: £2.60
To Mitcham Junction: £2.80So the total fare ranges from £4.25 to £5.25
I’d have to confirm with Mike, but I think that since fares from Slough are set by GWR, the fare to Paddington (their London terminal) is inevitably cheaper than the rest of Zone 1 stations which have to share the fare with TfL.
So in event of through operations of Elizabeth line beyond Paddington the fare arrangement should be the same, that means fare to Paddington would still be cheaper than the rest of Zone 1.
Morden is in zone 4 so the anytime cap is £7.00. It doesn’t matter when you travel during the day.
Of course! I really should have checked which zone Morden is in! 🙂
Mike, it turns out it really does not depend whether you’re holding a free bus pass of other councils under English National Concessionary Travel Scheme.
If you merely holding Disabled Railcard added to your Oyster, your journey details will end up like what Mike the admin suggested and you will not be capped because your total fare has not reached the Off-peak Railcard Daily cap of £8.90, rather you will be capped for bus journeys at £4.65 and have the fare of the solitary tube ride on top of that.
If you do hold a free bus pass under the English National Concessionary Travel Scheme, your bus journeys would be free after 0900 as mentioned here: https://tfl.gov.uk/transport-accessibility/fares-and-tickets In this case only bus journeys before 0900 would be charged via your Oyster, which under Hopper Fare would amount to £1.55 only.
