Hi,

First thing to note is that you shouldn’t be looking to get maximum fares. They don’t count towards capping and may leave you open to a penalty fare or prosecution.

That said, upto £6 is just for off-peak fares, it’s £8.90 for peak fares. Amersham to Baker Street is well within those figures. There are certain situations where you might not be charged the full maximum fare, particularly if you have a travelcard on your Oyster card. It doesn’t really vary from station to station though.

And they’ll all be increasing next month in line with the new fares.

Hi Michael,

I can understand your frustration, I really can. It’s good that you’ve raised an FOI request because that will either prove or disprove that lots of people are ‘overcharged’. If it turns out to be a potential problem then that may influence what happens next.

I think one of the issues is your understanding of the default route. It is a difficult concept because two very different criteria are at play. In the vast majority of cases the default route is the one most people are likely to use on any given day with normal services running. It also describes what will be charged however you travel if you don’t leave the system via a gateline (and don’t exceed the maximum journey time). The problem occurs when there is a potential route which doesn’t involve leaving the system which charges less than the most obvious route. An example of this might be Clapham Junction to Lewisham NR. Most people would choose to travel via Waterloo because there are plenty of trains on both legs, but you can change at Denmark Hill and stay in zone 2 if you don’t mind chancing the half hourly Victoria to Dartford service. Because that is cheaper and a significant minority of people use it, that has to be the default route. The more common route is detected by the gates between Waterloo and Waterloo East. I have had several people ask why they are overcharged when making the popular journey, especially in the days when the single fare finder didn’t display the alternate routes without you pressing another button.

The other things to note are that some journeys are charged via zone 1 regardless of the route taken. That is a fact regardless of how fair or otherwise it may seem. And when engineering work forces you to use a different (usually more expensive) route you are charged for what you do, rather than what you might have done without the diversion.

It is very rare that an engineering diversion using only trains will take you over a route which ought to be cheaper. In fact I can’t readily think of an example apart from the one you are talking about in this thread. As I’ve mentioned before, this is an unusual situation because trains travel over tracks which aren’t normally used for passenger services. The problem for TfL is that if they make the default route the one used on, say, 20 days in a year they will end up getting complaints from people who think they’ve been overcharged on the other 345 days.

Now, as I said at the start, if your FOI request shows that lots (hundreds per day) of people are making journeys which ought to be cheaper then it is just possible that TfL might consider changing the default route. However, hundreds per day is still only a very small percentage compared to the many thousands who will make journeys via zone 1 when the diversion isn’t in place. Therefore my considered opinion is that they are unlikely to make a change.

When you get the results of your FOI request back, I would recommend that you write to London Travelwatch if the figures suggest a big problem. They have in the past persuaded TfL to make adjustments where a cheaper route cannot be detected by the system. I must stress though that it is unlikely to be a quick fix even if LTW do manage to have a positive influence. The March faretables are already locked down and being tested, so a new permanent fare won’t appear until September at the earliest.

And the answer is 85p.

As far as I know there are no Oyster readers on any platforms at Elephant & Castle.

I’m not sure where you’re getting flexi season rates from. They aren’t supposed to be available within zones 1-6. The weekly is quite tight, but the monthly will save if you travel most weekdays. If you only require 3 or so days a week then PAYG is the best bet.

Yes, much cheaper off peak, but as Hatton Cross is dual zone 5/6 it’s also cheaper in the peak.

Hi David,

Yes it is. The Elizabeth line station is also step-free access to the Bakerloo line so it works as if it’s an LU station.

Hi Alan,

You’ve completely blown their minds with such a long and complex set of journeys. Go back to them and simply ask why fully completed journeys in zones 1-6 should cost more than the daily cap? Keep pushing until they agree to refund the rest.

Hi Kt,

Quick answer is that you were charged correctly, but not for the reasons given.

Where a travelcard plugs a hole between two extension fares you are charged the cheaper of the whole fare without the travelcard or the two extension fares. In this case the fares are National Rail rather than Underground so zone 1 peak is £3.10 which covers London Bridge to Vauxhall. Then the zone 4 extension is £2.60 which comes out at £5.70. As this is more than the £4.60 whole fare you are charged the whole fare.

The gold card discount applies to off-peak fares and the off-peak cap, but you didn’t reach the discounted off peak cap of £7.25. This is one of the drawbacks of travel in the afternoon peak which is included in the page When Not To Use Oyster.

I hope this helps you to understand what happened.

Hi Michael,

Unfortunately the route you used is not a usual route. I therefore doubt that you’ll get a refund.

Updating the fare tables is a very complex operation which is generally only done 3 times a year. There is no way that changes would be made just for engineering works.

Hi Ian,

You need a paper ticket (or equivalent) before you join the train at Woolwich. The 60+ Oyster is treated as a season ticket so the train doesn’t need to stop, nor are you penalised for not touching out. If there are no ticket facilities at Woolwich you could try Woolwich Arsenal, or purchase an e-ticket on your phone.

Cheers David,

Yes, the system assumes you’ve travelled via New Cross Gate and the East London Line and avoided zone 1. If you want to save even more you can travel from West Croydon direct to Whitechapel and only pay £2.90 peak.