Thanks for those links.

The first point to note is that fares on the line to Reading and associated branches were set before Project Oval. This means that the fares data sent to TfL does not come directly from the NR fares database. It looks like GWR have increased some of the off-peak fares but this hasn’t been reflected in the TfL database. This was probably at the September fares change where off-peak caps were all increased by GWR. I’m confident that the fare shown by the fare finder is what will be charged.

The Marlow issue is slightly different because the £22.00 fare is not tagged as being based on the contactless fare. I don’t know why the NR journey planner is not using the contactless fare when a fast train is being used. I’ll ask the question.

Hi Jonathan,

That’s an interesting conundrum. I’m surprised TfL can’t/won’t stop the card even if it has a negative balance. Do you know whether the card had a deposit on it? If it did then you probably don’t owe TfL anything. If you haven’t already called the helpdesk then I would do so, and ask them exactly what TfL would like you to do. They’ll probably say that nothing can be done, but ask for a call reference and the person’s name, and that’s as much as you can do.

I think Caterham to Tattenham Corner is probably the longest single zone journey outside of zones 1-2. I’m not sure how many people actually want to do it. When I last checked this many years ago it was posssible within about an hour, but timetables have probably changed since then.

TfL do increase the time allowed for certain journeys where it isn’t possible to complete it in the standard time allowed. If they get reports of problems then they will likely look at increasing the time allowed, which is why I’m not convinced that many people actually make the journey, if any.

If you do make the journey and it takes longer than 70 minutes then you’ll be charged two incomplete journeys. When you call the helpdesk they will refund all but the single zone charge, and it may kickstart a review.

You’re not going mad. The ticket should include a link to https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ticket-types/validity/b1/ on the National Rail website which confirms that it is only not valid between 0430-0929 on weekdays. Please complain to the companies who have told you otherwise.

Also, if you have an Oyster card with your 16-25 railcard attached then the zone 1-6 off-peak cap is just £10.85, and that will be enforced throughout the afternoon peak without you worrying about it. Plus, if Harrow is the furthest out you go (ie zone 5) then the cap reduces to £10.15. It goes down to just £5.90 if all travel is just in zones 1-2.

I must admit, Feathers, that I share your concern. However, if these ‘interchanges’ are indeed being shown on car line diagrams then I think that potentially changes things. I’m intending making some requests later in the month and will include this case along with some others when I do.

Hi Michael,

The dotted lines on the tube map are described as “less than a 10 minute walk” as opposed to an out-of-station-interchange, although the circle for the station does mean interchange, so I guess it’s a bit confusing. Unless they have added an OSI since the list was last published, using that interchange will result in two fares. Under normal circumstances there is little point in an OSI between those stations because just about any journey can be made without resorting to walking down the street.

On the other matter, direct trains only run on a few days a year when engineering diversions mean trains pass through Primrose Hill. I don’t think TfL will entertain defining that as a default route when it isn’t available for most of the time. As someone who might benefit when it does happen, feel free to request that they consider it. It’s probably best to send an email or fill out a help an contact webform, but a phone call to the helpdesk might result in them taking details and calling you back later on.

Hi Richard,

So it’s been an eventful 7 days!

I agree that it’s unlikely anyone else used your phone. If you feel inclined you might want to check google maps timeline (if you have it activated) as that may indicate where you were at 10:27. Another avenue may be to contact your mobile provider and see if they can assist. If your phone pinged a mast nowhere near Bond Street at that time then it would be pretty conclusive. The other thing to ask TfL is why the charges for the 1st one were not incomplete journeys. That points to something fishy to me.

For the overcharges, I’d be asking my bank anyway, so that it’s logged that you’re actively investigating. They may even agree to refund the amount in the circumstances. TfL should only ever produce one transaction per day per card.

Hi Adam,

Have you looked at evening peak fares from Reigate, or between East Grinstead and Woldingham?

The whole thing is a bit of a mess. The reason Dorking is different to Reigate is because SWR set the fares from there even though half the trains are Southern.

Well £1.75 is the maximum a bus journey will cost, but I know you didn’t mean that ;). Looks like they still have some work to do.

This is very confusing. There are no cpay fares for Hertford North to Welwyn Garden City, possibly because they are both in the existing pre-oval contactless area. Also, isn’t there an issue at Stevenage where you have to exit and re-enter to get between platform 0 and the rest of the station? Do Hertford North trains ever use other than platform 0?

Cambridge? That isn’t part of this rollout?

Ah, I understand now. In which case, I don’t think there is a free way of breaking the OSI, unless you are going to cap anyway so a touch on a bus is effectively free. Have you managed to get a refund?

I think the number of people who exit and enter the station within 10 minutes after fulfilling their reason for going there is probably quite small.

I think the fact that most of the Gpay issues will have happened after the AWS outage started probably meant that some staff did jump to the wrong conclusion. In fact, if I hadn’t been aware of an issue on Sunday and had a problem on the Monday morning, I’d have jumped to the same conclusion myself.

As to what caused the issue itself, you’ll not get more than they’ve said. It was probably an issue at TfL’s end, but maybe caused by a change implimented by either GPay or Amex, that TfL hadn’t properly understood or wasn’t properly explained to them. As long as no-one is out of pocket then it’s just one of those things that happen occasionally. And I say that as someone who loves to know exactly what happened and gets frustrated when people won’t explain.