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Hi Joel,
I’m completely with you on this topic. Manor House to Harringay Green Lanes is a signposted walk and I do think it should be an OSI. Making the case for such interchanges is a background task which I am progressing at the moment. You could certainly write to TfL and request that they consider adding it. The more people who do so increases the chance that it might happen. There are certainly plenty of journey opportunities that would benefit from it.
Looking at your other coments, South Hampstead to Swiss Cottage is not quite so clear cut. Both lines head out in a similar North West direction so it’s not clear how many people would benefit. In this case, the stated definition of the dotted line, which is to indicate nearby stations under 10 minutes walking distance, is probably justified. They cleverly don’t describe the dotted line as an interchange, but I agree that the distinction between the two is blurred.
As for Woolwich, there are only two stations, Woolwich (EL) and Woolwich Arsenal. The latter contains both the DLR and SE/TL behind the same gatelines. There is an OSI defined between the two stations. The map certainly doesn’t help putting the DLR so far away from the National Rail lines.
I’m testing it this evening. First port of call this afternoon was Dartford (8) and the gates rejected it with code 57. Will be trying a few other places later, including Waltham Cross (7) which I believe is still a Greater Anglia station.
Well that’s good service. Ordered smartcard online about 10pm on 7th March. Landed on doormat about 10am today (9th March).
Hi Alan,
Comments above are noted.
I understand where you are coming from, but a ticket with a route of AAA Zones 7-9 is definitely valid at any station in those zones, not just the stations one might travel through from the origin.
Giving this validity is very much a kludge in the ticketing system, which is why the vast majority of the conditions only mention zones 1-6. Therefore, the problem is either GA coding the ticket incorrectly or Cubic not recognising the coding correctly.
However, my interest and determination are sufficiently piqued now that I’ve set up a GA account and downloaded the app. I’m about to order a smartcard and intend to test it out myself. Fortunately for me, I have a 60+ Oyster, so if it is refused, i can still travel at no extra cost. I’m determined to get to the bottom of this.
Hi Gaston,
I sympathise, but there are two factors against you here. Fares for late adopting NR lines (like GN) are generally higher than comparable tube and NR lines which use TfL prices. This is a historical issue but there doesn’t seem to be any political will to synchronise fares. Then there is the second issue which is the premium added when you use the late adopting NR lines along with tube or DLR. Again this is historical, although it does only affect fares when the journey involves zone 1.
You are correct that up to Finsbury Park there is no difference because that part of GN has always charged tube fares, largely because you can’t tell which way someone has travelled. There is also the small matter that Finsbury Park is in zone 2 so I would expect the fares to be cheaper than to Harringay in zone 3.
If you want to try and understand how things work then take a look at the Fares Guide page.
Hi Alan,
Do you know what route R40232 says?
When the travelcard is issued on paper it is shown as Amersham to zones 1-6 and the route description is AAA zones 7-9. I’m not aware of anywhere where a ticket says zones 1-9. They are, however, supposed to work throughout zones 1-9.
In terms of your failed travel I would be asking TfL to refund the PAYG charged for Chesham to Harrow on the Hill and ask them whether there was a problem at Chesham that day. You clearly had a valid ticket on your smartcard.
Hi Stuart,
Sorry for the delay responding.
The cheapest day travelcard you can buy is for zones 1-6 off-peak and this costs £5.40 more than the adult zone 1-3 daily cap. A single riverboat fare for the Central and East zones costs £1.20 more using Oyster or contactless than you get if you show a travelcard, so it doesn’t look like it’s worthwhile. Prices are going up in two weeks, but the point will likely still stand.
I’m not sure how much a taxi from Cutty Sark to North Grenwich might cost, but given you’ll likely have capped anyway why not use the DLR to Canary Wharf instead.
Has the 13-year old got a zip card?
Hi Andrew,
Good news that it worked. The journey history viewable on a LU ticket machine is literally what is stored on the card, hence why it was going back to 2020.
Hi Daniel,
You’re pretty much spot on. The off-peak cap only starts being calculated after 0930 so initially you did cap at zones 1-2. If you’d realised that then you could have split at Stratford on the way home and saved £1.45. NR and NR-T do trump TfL-Ang which often creates anomalies, but you’re right, there is no standalone fare for 4-9 on NR because there are no NR stations in zone 9.
I’m sympathetic about the lack of progress towards back office calculations when discounted Oyster cards are involved. I don’t know why it’s taking so long, I can only assume that it’s not seen as a priority. The ability to link railcards to either contactless cards or a dumb Oyster style card is part of the second phase of the current rollout of PAYG to areas of the Southeast. It’s not likely to happen before 2024 at the earliest though.
Hi Andrew,
It shouldn’t do. Check it on a ticket machine first so you can ask staff if there is a problem.
Hi Saj,
That’s a bit of a difficult one. Can you give me more info (date and time) and I’ll try and find out what was happening then. I’m disappointed that they appear to be changing their story. Strikes must be putting a toll on the amount of calls, but that’s no excuse for giving misleading information.
If there was a strike then you’d be expected to know what was running and plan accordingly, therefore they would not give refunds in that situation. However, if there was a temporary reason why the Overground wasn’t running then I would hope that they’d offer a refund down to the fare for the journey you actually made as a gesture of goodwill.
I can’t say which way they’ll go, but if I can find out the reason then I suggest you write an email asking them to reconsider.
Hi Stu,
I can explain what you’ve been charged.
Your £15.90 fare is made up of the zone 1-9 off-peak cap (£14.10) plus the £1.80 single fare from Brentwood to Shenfield. There is a £7.30 surcharge placed on peak journeys to/from Heathrow on the Elizabeth line, but the fare is included in caps. Shenfield benefits from the off-peak (after 0930) cap to zone 9 (Brentwood) being relatively cheap and a quite low fare between the last two stations.
The good news is that your wife’s card will be due a refund next time she uses it because her touches will have been run through the back office system and the charge recalculated. If she uses the card within the week after the refund has been queued then it will be added to her balance immediately. After that it will be added on the second touch.
Yes, there is a grace period at each end of the peak times where off-peak fares will be charged. The details are on the FAQ page. It’s 5 minutes at the beginning and 3 minutes at the end currently.
Hi George,
Paddington is complicated when it comes to interchange time, and I think I may need to make things clearer on my OSI list. Sadly you have not been overcharged because LU to EL is 20 minutes either way. The reason for this is that the EL station is like the LU station where you wait for your train within the gateline. In contrast you wait on the concourse of the NR station until your train is announced, and then go through the gates onto the correct platform.
Strangely, the additional OSIs between Lancaster Gate and Paddington EL/NR both allow 40 minutes in the Paddington direction and 20 minutes in reverse. Using the same logic as at Paddingotn the EL time ought to be 20 minutes in both directions.
Agreed it looks wacky, but it was probably more reasonable before the Overground went to Clapham Junction.
Hi David,
OK, change to the previous answer, to avoid any of this hassle you should have used your freedom pass to get into platform 12-14. There is no penalty for not touching out again and you could have used your contactless card to touch out as normal.
Also, the £26 charge is because you used the low numbered platforms where the usual next stop is Reading. Good luck getting TfL/GWR to sort things out. Please let us know how you get on.
Hi David,
I fear that this is one of those situations where it’s impossible to predict the best outcome. Ideally you would be let in to catch the replacement train, but if that doesn’t happen then you’re not going to avoid some sort of dicussion. You haven’t said where you were going to and who ran the trains out of Paddington (EL or GWR)?
The middle journey has been separated out because it was incomplete. I would have hoped that the helpline would listen to your story and match the touches with what happened. I’d be inclined to try again, and ask to be escalated to a manager if they still say no. If you’re still not getting any joy then email to custmer services with the full story again and ask for either a refubd, or a deadlock letter so you can take it to the ombudsman.
You don’t get railcard discounts on single fares in the peak periods (unless it’s a disabled railcard).
Yes, both ways would be £7.10. If you use the fare finder on this site it has the useful addition of a button to click to show the fares for the reverse direction. The peak times are not always the same each way.
Those times are pretty much in the middle of the peak periods so I can’t see any way to make a saving. I’ll hopefully hear back next week about the through fare and if it can be sold. It’s one of those oddities which is in the fare system but named underground stations are a bit of a problem.
Hi MrKlaw,
Can you confirm the times of travel in each direction?
I need to correct some errors above. Travel between Chiswick Park and Slough is subject to an evening peak between 1600-1900. The confusion is because it is off-peak the other way. The 16-25 railcard is valid at any time, but there is a £12.00 minimum fare when used before 10am. You can use contactless at Windsor and Eton Central. The touch pads are at the end of the platform in the shoppping area. There is a sign by the side entrance next to where the trains stop pointing you in that direction.
The contactless fares are valid on either EL or GWR, but they are adult only, no railcard allowed.
There is supposed to be a return ticket from Windsor and Eton Central to London Underground zone 3 for £13.45 with railcard discount, but I can’t get any websites to sell it. I’ve asked for assistance from a contact. If there is a ticket office at Windsor then they might know how to sell it, or alternatively the ticket office at Slough may be able to help. I think that is the cheapest way to do things.
If we can’t get that fare to be sold then your daughter is already doing the next best thing. Use the paper ticket from Windsor to Ealing Broadway and contactless for the tube. She needs to touch out by exiting the gateline at Ealing Broadway before using her ticket to get back in on the way home. In the morning she can use the pink readers because they will start a PAYG journey, they just won’t end one.
The start time of each journey would still be useful, especially if it can be outside the two peak periods of 0630-0930 and 1600-1900. That is, might she start early or finish late to be able to use off-peak fares.
