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The incomplete journey fare seems remarkably low. Isn’t there a temptation not to tap out if the fare is greater than £10.40, especially as the Oyster card would pass an in train inspection?
There are similar issues on the GN route. The new stations charge peak to zone 2 in the morning only, whereas the existing ones charge peak fares morning and evening. So in the evening peak Welwyn North to Finsbury Park is cheaper than Welwyn Garden City to Finsbury Park. In fact the cheapest ticket from WGC to FPK is a paper ticket from Welwyn North!
I guess the same would apply Kentish Town NR to St. Albans or Luton if you go via St Pancras (no barrier) to get the fast train. I’d be interested to know if you get charged a via z1 fare is you use the EMR train to Luton (the only z1 fare shown is using the tube from Kentish Town, not NR)
North of the river is the worst. I travelled Potters bar to Hatfield yesterday and used an e-ticket potters bar to Welwyn N and saved 25%. It needs sorting quickly or people will lose confidence
To clarify:
What’s changed is the extension of contactless to 20 new stations. The new Project Oval stations only charge peak fares 06.30-09.30 for stations towards London.
The legacy stations that have had contactless for a while continue to charge peak fares 06.30-09.30 (all zones) AND 16.00-19.00 (except for journeys to zone 1). The result is that in the evening peak a journey to eg a zone 2 station is cheaper from farther away. So it’s cheaper to zone 2 from Luton than from Luton Airport Parkway despite Luton being farther a stop further from zone 2.
So to overcome this anomaly I am hoping thr DfT / TfL bring the legacy GTR stations into line with other parts of London where the London-bound evening peak is charged at off peak for both the old and new contactless stations.Paddington to Tottenham Court Road EL
Tottenham Court Road EL to Stratford (London) RailI just checked again and it’s working now. Must have been a glitch this morning.
Go to any tube station and ask the staff there. All 3 stations you mention have a tube station in the vicinity but are in a separate location to the Thameslink station. At West Hampstead, turn right out the Thameslink station, past the Mildmay line station and cross the road to the Jubilee line station. At St Pancras turn right after the barriers exit St Oancras and cross the road to Kings Cross St Pancras tube station. At Blackfriars exit at the north end of the station and follow the corridors to the tube station
The current contactless fares from Hertford N to WGC is £12.20 according to single fare finder. This would be via Alexandra Palace or Finsbury Pk. Most Hertford trains use the new platform 5 which has its own gates; some early morning / late evening ones use platform 1 or 4.
No, both via Stevenage. There’s a separate more expensive fare via Alexandra Palace (£9.10) and a contactless one
Looks like GN may have taken the opportunity to adjust some fares that pass through the new zone. Although it’s patchy so Hertford to Welwyn N is £6 while Hertford to Welwyn GC is £12.60 (or £7.10 with split tickets)
Fair enough. The new paper ticket fares are showing some very significant decreases in fares (Off peak, Hertford N – Stevenage single drops by 55%, London – Cambridge by 53%) and I assume the contactless fares will be similar or the same. It’s funny that the government publicity has focused on not fining people at Stansted rather than the fact that fares are coming down, especially for single journeys.
I’ve also seen some new split ticket opportunities to stations beyond the Oval zone.Going into nerd mode … there are some examples of going out from z2 where the default is via z1 and there is an avoiding z1 fare: Canonbury to Romford is a good example, where the default is Windrush to Whitechapel via z1 then EL. The faster, more direct route is Mildmay to Stratford then GA or EL requires a touch on the pink reader and is shown as avoiding z1.
I didn’t mention the refund amount in my email, just the route and included my journey history.
I just checked the Hertford East to Fairlop fare which £3.55 – I assume the default route is via Stratford (z3) which suggests £4.75 from Hertford N is right. The Stratford route wasn’t available yesterday due to engineering work.
I think the Turnpike Lane fare is the anomaly. I note that Hertford N to Arnos Grove is £4.85 via Bowes Park / Bounds Green. Maybe it’s different if you head inwards on the tube vs. Outwards?
I was able to point to the fare from Hertford N to Upney (also in z4) via Harringay and Barking which is in the Single Fare Finder. I can’t see any reason why the Central would be dearer than the District!
I was refunded £4.20 (£2.10 for each direction). The agent agreed with my view that the fare should have been £4.75. It’s odd that the system defaults to the z1 fare rather than the z2 one. I’ll email them as you suggest.
The fares between Farringdon and Moorgate from GN / TL stations are set based on the NR fares. This goes back to the pre-electrification days when trains from GN / TL routes ran via Kings Cross to Moorgate calling at Farringdon and Barbican. The opening of the EL has now added in Liverpool St.
To close the loop on this, TfL have refunded me the two lots of 5p difference.
Having made other journeys the rounding change seems to be pretty random – for example a zone 1 tube fare stays at £1.75 while a zone 1-2 fare increase from £1.80 to £1.85. It throws up a few anomolies where touching out and in and splitting a ticket can be beneficial. For example Hertford N to zone 1 tube is now £6.55; tapping in and out at Moorgate is £4.75 + £1.75 =£6.50The fare structure from the GN stations is quite interesting and not logical! You pay the same fare to any NR station in zones 1-6 (travelling via z1 and using NR only) as you do to Moorgate, this would include to South Bermondsey. So, for example, Hertford N to East Croydon, Slade Green, Hampton Ct, Elstree & Borehamwood, Hatch End are all £7.20 off peak, 10p more than a journey avoiding zone 1. This fare also covers the tube between Finsbury Park and Kings Cross on the Victoria and Piccadilly lines as well as Kings Cross to Liverpool Street on the Northern (excluding starting / finishing a journey at Angel), Circle , Metropolitan or H&C lines and Farringdon to Abbey Wood (but NOT Stratford and beyond) on the Elizabeth Line. The rationale for a lot of this is that NR tickets have traditionally had interavailability with the underground between Finsbury Park and Moorgate going back to the pre-1975 time when Hertford North trains ran to Moorgate via Kings Cross and the ‘widened lines’.
Any journey requiring a tube journey, or Elizabeth Line to Tottenham Ct Red and the West, beyond those listed above will cost more – £9.90 for any journey ending in zones 1-6. The same applies to C2C, GA, Elizabeth line (Stratford & beyond), and Weaver line stations in z2-6 via Liverpool St (the assumption is you use the tube between Moorgate and Liverpool Street even if you walk via the Elizabeth line platform).
Im hoping this is system issue and the bit that adds the to up to the card lost connection with the finance system and generated an automated email. Here is the salient part of the email from TFL:
We automatically topped up your Oyster card (number xxxxxxxxxx) with £10.00 pay as you go credit on 08 February 2024. However, we were unable to take payment from your credit or debit card.
Please pay this outstanding charge within three working days otherwise your Oyster card may be stopped.
It doesn’t appear so thought I haven’t tapped in since. There is no transaction on my credit card account and my balance according to the app is still £20.35 which shouldn’t have triggered an auto top-up. I last used the card on Thursday and my journey history shows:
Start balance £19.35
Auto top up collected £10.00 [this transaction was successfully debited from my card previously]
Hertford North —> Kingston £4.45
Kingston —> Hertford North £4.55
Spent £9.00 [which gives a balance of £20.35]I shan’t be travelling now until Wednesday so let’s see what happens.
I had exactly the same. It spooked me a bit. I travelled on Thursday but my balance at the end of the day was £20.35 and my auto top-up threshold is £20 so there should have been no top-up. I checked with my bank and they confirmed no declined transaction so I’m assuming either TfL has IT issues (is this why they are down?) or it’s a scam.
I’ve emailed TfL to ask about a manual payment so may get a reply at some point. There’s no way to make a manual payment with the system down, and I don’t want to top up at a ticket machine if there’s already a top-up somewhere in the system. After the post office scandal I don’t trust these IT systems.
Anyone else have any thoughts?Looks like GA is a bargain compared to GN. I travelled from Hertford N. to Kingston yesterday via Willesden Jn. avoiding zone 1 at £4.45 (with railcard). From Hertford E. it’s £3.85. The difference will only get wider … at least until LO is allowed to take over the Moorgate lines from GN.
Hopefully the single fare finder will be updated with the new NR fares and the caps beyond z6. I wonder how they’ll handle Cheshunt and Watford Junction where there’s a mix of Overground and NR. Similarly Reading or Shenfield with the EL.
