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Hi Mihkel,
The answer is the fare finder. Outside the zones fares only apply to a select few (usually one) stations so the fare finder is the place to look. If there’s a specific fare you’re puzzled about I can try to offer an opinion on why it is what it is.
Hi Andyboy,
That’s a messy one. You are expected to take the District line via Earl’s Court from both East Putney and Southfields, thus the fare is LU only. From Putney you are charged the NR rate. I’m not sure what happens if you enter and exit a station in this instance. It should operate the same station exit rule and start a new journey at Putney.
Hi Chris,
As things stand TfL are correct. The only alternative route between Canary Wharf and Upper Holloway is via either Leytonstone or Forest Gate. The route has to be defined in the database before the system can charge it.
I suspect that when routeings were defined they put the whole of the Goblin in the same way, apart from Gospel Oak itself which is clearly obvious to go direct from Stratford.
Having looked at the map I can certainly see the benefit of allowing via Gospel Oak for Upper Holloway and possibly Crouch Hill as well. I suggest you write to oysterenquiries@tfl.gov.uk and request that they consider adding that route. You can point out that it avoids the need to walk between two stations at Leytonstone which should be seen as a benefit.
Hi Lisa,
Sorry for the delay. Starting at Gatwick in the peak is going to cost quite a bit, but there are ways to mitigate this. Assuming that your Oyster cards don’t have a railcard discount associated with them (ie you pay full adult fares) then I’d look to get them refunded while you’re in London. More on that below.
If you use a contactless card then you’ll cap more favourably, probably at the £7.70 zone 1-2 cap plus a single from Gatwick on top. Oyster would keep charging until you reached the cap from Gatwick, possibly as much as £35. On the second day it’s not so much of a problem because you’ll be limited by the zone 1-2 cap before heading to the Airport. Contactless adds up all your travel for the day and charges your bank one amount at the end, so no need to topup or worry about leaving too much on the card.
The peak single from Gatwick to Victoria (or Blackfriars or London Bridge) is £16.50. You can reduce this by splitting your journey at East Croydon. Gatwick to East Croydon is £5.70 peak and East Croydon to Victoria etc is also £5.70 peak, making a total of £11.40 or a saving of £5.10. If you have lots of luggage then it may seem a hassle, but that’s your call. Off-peak the saving is only £1.70 so may not be worth it. You need to touch out at the gates, go through and then touch back in going back into the station.
Finally back to refunding the Oyster cards. If they were purchased before 23rd February 2020 then there will be a £5 deposit on the card. After that date the £5 became a fee which is refunded as PAYG credit after 12 months. To get the fee refund you have to use the card to make a journey. This happens automatically for the first 6 months after the year anniversary, but you need to call the helpdesk first if it’s more than 6 months. If you are in this situation then you may want to call the helpdesk before you fly in and use the Oyster cards to make the Gatwick to East Croydon journey so you get the refund.
Then, if there is less than £10 credit on the card it can be refunded at a tube station ticket machine along with the deposit if there is one. If there’s more than £10 then you have to call the helpdesk and they will arrange a refund to your bank. More details at https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/refunds-and-replacements/oyster-pay-as-you-go-credit-no-longer-needed.
I hope this helps, but do please ask again if it’s not clear.
Hi wibble,
Can you post a few more days of journey history, including the dates. Ideally at least a week, maybe even two. Thanks in advance.
Yes, that’s right. But if there’s a chance you won’t reach the cap then note that it’s the peak fare you’ll be charged. If there’s no train to catch between 0910 and 0925 then you’re probably better off waiting.
Hi Adam,
Off-peak fares start being charged at 0925. This is an unpublished grace period which was confirmed in response to an FOI request. I’d leave touching in until 0927/0928 as long as the train leaves from the usual London bound platform.
Hi BS,
That will have been charged as a zone 1-3 daily cap at £9.00 and two zone 4 to Watford Junction extensions at £2.10 each. It’s good value, isn’t it?
Hi Talster,
See note above. All trains appear on the departure boards at Euston. London Overground and most LNWR trains leave from the middle 4 platforms which have their own gateline with Oyster pads. If a LNWR train leaves from an unbarriered platform then there will be an Oyster pad to touch along the side of the walkway down to the platform. The exit at Watford Junction is also a gateline with Oyster pads.
Thanks Chris, but Oyster and contactless definitely are valid on London North Western services. I’ve used them many times.
Hi Joanne,
Basically you just touch in and out using the bank card (or device like a smart watch or phone). You must use the same card/device each time. The system analyses all your touches at the end of each day and makes a charge to your bank for the cheapest fare for the days travel (often will be the cap).
You don’t have to do anything else, it just works. You can create an account on the TfL website and link the card to it so you can check your journey history if you want, but it’s not essential.
The 10-year-old travels free on all buses, tubes and dlr. If you’re sticking to zones 1 and 2 then you shouldn’t need to use any National Rail so they shouldn’t need a ticket at all. The map at https://content.tfl.gov.uk/free-travel-areas-without-oyster-adult-accompanying-map.pdf shows where they can travel for free on National Rail without a zip card. Any of the green lines are fine.
Hi Joanne,
Can you tell me how old the child is please?
As far as the adults are concerned you might be better off using a contactless bank card. You’ll cap at the zone 1-2 daily rate of £7.70, but if you don’t actually make enough journeys it’ll only charge for what you do. You also avoid the need to spend £5 on the Oyster card which you’d need to keep for a year to be able to get that back.
Hi Chris,
It’s working. You do like pushing the boundaries though.
As you suggested, you have exceeded the zone 3-6 weekly cap by £9.85 on Friday. This was refunded on Saturday morning at the same time as charging you for the final 95p to make the weekly bus/tram cap. That 95p needs to come back but is below the threshold for refunds. However, you’ll have been charged a further £1.65 today (at least) which also needs to come back and I expect it all to be refunded tomorrow. Do let me know if it isn’t.
Hi Chris,
Oyster weekly capping is calculated each night with any adjustment queued for the following day if it’s over the threshold. Did you get a refund? If not, copy your full history for the week and I’ll see what I make of it.
I don’t think it does. The 60+ Oyster is an off-peak zone 1-6 travelcard with extra validity on TfL services. To use it to Shenfield on a GA train you need a ticket from either boundary zone 6 or Harold Wood.
It’s not just Hertford East. The same thing applies to Shenfield beyond zone 6. Also 60+ cards are valid on London Overground from 0900 whereas its 0930 for most other TOCs. This affects lines like New Cross Gate to West Croydon or Crystal Palace where the card is valid on orange trains after 0900 but not on green trains until 0930.
I’m sorry if it sounds like a circular argument. If you are unhappy with the fares offered by the ticket machine at Rye House then I suggest you contact Greater Anglia and ask them to explain. They set both fares for paper tickets and the PAYG fares.
Sadly it isn’t technically possible to have fare extensions on 60+ Oysters or Freedom Passes. The reason is the different rules for different train companies. A touch in at Cheshunt and a touch out at Liverpool Street does not tell the system whether you used London Overground or Greater Anglia. There are numerous other examples as well.
Hi Colin,
The old extensions are still available. Rye House to Boundary Zone 6 is £6.50 single, £6.60 super off-peak day return, £7.70 off-peak day return and £11.20 anytime return.
The ticket machine cannot offer the PAYG fare because that is only available when using the PAYG system. Part of the reason for the discrepancy is the disparity between singles and returns on paper. As PAYG only operates as single fares it was necessary to make the single fare half the required return fare.
Hi David,
Sadly this is one of the problems of the different systems. As long as once you’re in zone 1 you stay in there then there is a way to avoid paying extra. Travel from Clapham Junction (or stay on the train from Kew Bridge) to Vauxhall and exit with your Key card there. Then go to the Underground and use the Oyster card. Vauxhall is dual zoned so you’ll be fine with both cards.
Alternatively, if you might cap at the zone 1-2 rate (just over 3 zone 1 rail journeys) then there’s no penalty for switching at Clapham Junction in zone 2 because there is no zone 1 only cap.
Hi Colin,
There’s no way to get the PAYG fare without using Oyster or contactless. You would only need to touch out at Enfield because the 60+ Oyster is effectively an off-peak season ticket so it doesn’t matter if it’s not touched in. Changing at Cheshunt and using London Overground is really the only sensible way, and it’s only £2.20 off-peak.
Re the trip you made. If you call the helpdesk they should be able to sort it out, but they won’t want you to make a habit of it.
Hi Chris, and thanks akm,
Yes the zone 3-6 NR extension is 5p more than the single fare so you end up paying the zone 1-6 cap. Because you caused the second extension to be an actual fare you avoided the extra 5p.
What was the extra journey you made on your Oyster?
It will feel like an overcharge sadly. That’s just the way the DfT forced TfL to charge extensions on that line.
Hi Thomas,
Was this a contactless card?
There probably isn’t any refund due because extension fares to Gatwick are not just simply the zones covered. You may remember the article Gatwick The Truth on here a few years back. Because of the bonkers cheap fare from East Croydon to Gatwick the system never charged the full London to Gatwick return fare. DfT/GTR whinged and thus the CPC extension being more than the Oyster extension concept was born.
