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Hi Alan,
I’m not sure it would make that much difference at the moment, but I’ll keep an open mind in the future.
Hi Andrew,
That’s a good question. When you touch out at Tottenham Hale NR you will be charged a zone 3 journey from Stratford. When you then touch in at TH LU and go to Vauxhall the system will change that to a zone 1-2 fare as per the default. The reverse direction is a bit more complicated. The Vauxhall to Tottenham Hale LU journey is zone 1-3 so that is what you’ll be charged on Oyster. It won’t reduce that when you end up at Stratford. If it’s an undiscounted adult Oyster card then it will make an adjustment overnight which will be credited to your card on a later journey within about 2 weeks. If you use contactless then it’ll automatically charge a zone 1-2 journey both ways because the end of day processing will see the whole journey as one.
That having been said, I think Central line to Oxford Circus then Victoria line is probably the fastest, and certainly most frequent, route you can take.
Yes, peak or off-peak is decided by the time of the first touch in on a journey.
Whitechapel to Liverpool Street can be either Underground or Elizabeth line.@akm: I’m not sure that there’s a method to update an FOI on the TfL webiste if it comes back from the ICO. There will soon be a new FOI request which should be responded to immediately now that there is a precedent, unless they just say that nothing has changed.
Hi,
Sorry for the delay, I’ve been having a discussion elsewhere about the cheapest tickets and whether you can use them.
You can’t buy a return covering two days for this journey, so it will have to be two singles. There are different considerations on each day, so I’ll cover them seperately.
On Thursday evening the cheapest ticket will be an Evening Out Single from Putney to Bracknell for £6.60. Putney is dual zoned 2/3 so is ideal for this journey. There is, however, one caveat which is that you can’t board a train using that ticket between 1600-1910 from Waterloo, Vauxhall or Clapham Junction. You would be boarding at Clapham Junction, but at that point you would be using your travelcard. I wouldn’t like to second guess how an RPI would react if they checked your ticket at the wrong time. A further complication is that the Bracknell trains don’t stop at Putney. This isn’t a problem when combining a point to point ticket with a travelcard, but the boarding restrictions add an extra element into the mix. There are no boarding restrictions from Putney itself.
My strategy would be to catch an earlier train from Clapham Junction to Richmond which did stop at Putney. Make sure you have a few pounds of PAYG credit on your Oyster card (assuming that’s what holds the travelcard) and if you are checked between Putney and Richmond just present your Oyster card pretending that you’ll exit at Richmond and use the credit. At Richmond you get off and board the Bracknell train and you’ll be fine because there are also no boarding restrictions there. If you somehow have a paper travelcard then belt and braces would be to get off the train at Putney and get back on again, but as long as it stops at Putney you should be fine.
For the Friday there are no Evening Out singles available so it will just be a case of buying a Bracknell to Putney single for £9.60. You can then use any train. You can save 5p if you buy a single from Bracknell to Feltham and then use the PAYG balance on your Oystercard, but you’d have to get off and touch in at Feltham and may have to step back a train. This also assumes you have the gold card discount set on your Oyster card.
I hope this helps, but do reply if anything isn’t clear.
Thanks all for the responses. Default route is a difficult concept, I agree. The other variable with Liverpool Street LU is that you can end a journey at Moorgate and walk through the EL passageway and get charged the same as if you’d ended at Moorgate.
That’s fantastic, Alan.
Yes, please send over the csv file and I’ll take a look. Adding it to the fare finder was one of the things I wanted to do before TfL refused the request.
Hello,
Sorry for the delay. I think the only possibility is if you ask a ticket stop shop whether they can do it. I don’t know for sure, but they might be able to. Ticket machines will only allow multiples of 5p or 10p. Online it’s multiples of £5.
The only other way to get the balance back is to refund the card, but if you needed another one it would now cost the £7 fee. Once refunded the old card is deactivated.
Hi Chris,
I don’t think you’ll have any trouble. I’d say that buses not going forward an hour mid journeys is probably a known issue and if you explain what happened they’ll refund.
Let me know what happens tomorrow.
Hi Peter,
As others have said, the only way to do it without getting off is to either use a paper ticket the whole way, or use a boundary of zone to Slough ticket in conjunction with a travelcard.
The Oyster system is not designed to fully integrate with the wider National Rail network.
Hi Michael,
I perhaps need to make the list a little clearer, but it’s quite a complicated combination of situations at Paddington. The OSIs between Lancaster Gate and Paddington are valid at the NR upstairs station and at the Elizabeth line entrance. It’s not valid at the Underground entrances, although if you access the Underground via the Elizabeth line then it will work.
Hi Tony,
PAYG fares from Iver and beyond are all set by GWR. It does appear that something may have gone wrong here. Do you have any journey history from before and after the fares change to demonstrate what is happening? You may need to contact GWR and ask them why it’s gone up so much.
As for the daily cap, that is something which is very opaque and I’m still trying to get to the bottom of how it is applied. It looks like the combination of a zonal cap (eg 1-6) plus extension fares has lowered it from what was expected.
Hi Michael,
The somewhat clumsy add-on of different fares for Anglia, at the insistance of the DfT, causes quite a few anomalies. I’m considering dropping the 7-9 rows from the table because it’s notoriously difficult to describe the permutations succinctly. One of the biggest issues is whether NR or Ang takes precedence. One of the flows I use to create the table (Cricklewood to Brentwood) has changed a year ago.
As to your issues, In the case of Dartford to Brentwood (which is actually 3-9) I think the fact that Dartford is beyond zones 1-6 is trumping the Anglia fares. North Dulwich isn’t outside zones 1-6 and so is subject to the Anglia fares. Chesham (and Amersham) to Cheshunt is treated differently because the expensive end is Cheshunt in zone 8. Anglia fares are set for zones 7-8 for Theobalds Grove, Waltham Cross and Cheshunt, and zone 9 is just for Brentwood.
I hope that helps.
Hi,
You’ve touched on the subject which is occupying my time at present, namely understanding PAYG cap extension fares on contactless. I’ve been waiting for a response from GWR which has just come in and I’m about to write up the story so far. I am also intending to involve London Travelwatch, because the process is far from transparent. I believe it should be possible to work out in advance how much you will be charged for a sequence of journeys, which currently isn’t doable.
One issue to bear in mind is that a PAYG extension fare will cover both Slade Green to Abbey Wood and Southall to Maidenhead, whereas a paper BZ4 to Maidenhead ticket will only cover that end. It’s possible that I may be able to work out what the extension fare is once I know what the new NR fares will be, but the insistance of the DfT that new fares will not be made public until March 3rd is hampering even basic research.
Watch this space!
Something has clearly gone wrong. Are you being denied travel? I’ll see if I can get some answers, though this may be difficult as it’s a weekend.
I’ve just tried to topup my normal Oyster card. It went through all the stages, including getting an authorisation from the bank, then told me that the card hadn’t been verified so they couldn’t do the topup.
The fares from Hertford North seem to be a bit muddled. The same default fares are charged for travel to Camden Road, Blackfriars NR and East Croydon. It doesn’t seem to matter whether you avoid zone 1 or not, as long as you don’t change to the Underground. It might be worth asking GTR why this is.
Also, even if LO take over the Moorgate services don’t expect fares to change beyond zone 6.
Kt1974: No press release. You ought to query with your bank why their systems are over-sensitive towards TfL transactions.
Adam: Cheshunt fares appear to be frozen. This is probably because GA are compensated for charging TfL fares over that line. Fares for Watford Junction will be increased in line with National policy, as will fares to stations beyond West Drayton and to Shenfield.
I hope the single fare finder does get updated soon, though I fear that the DfT have told TfL not to do so.
Hi Adam,
Sadly the govenment’s (Department for Transport) desire for secrecy has spilled over into TfL this year so that the Mayoral Decision with the new fares did not include the NR single fares as usual. I find this mind-numbingly frustrating. I hope that this is the last year we have to suffer this treatment.
What is known is that virtually all TfL fares are frozen, including the lines out of Liverpool Street. Fares to Brentwood and Shenfield will rise, as well as Watford Junction and west of West Drayton to Reading.
Single fares set at the NR rate and NR-T rate will rise in line with the general regulated increase, but exact details of rounding are not yet known. Outside zones 1-6 I expect that caps will still be aligned with the new travelcard prices. I don’t know for certain yet though.
Hi Roger,
It seems to me absurd that two offpeak journeys are charged as a peak fare on a through ticket.
That is generally how PAYG works. The problem is getting significantly bigger now the area is expanding.
When PAYG arrives, will TfL’s back office system recognise that it is impossible to catch a peak train from Zone 1 if a passenger catches the 1853 at Windsor?
It depends how the peak charging is set up from Windsor. Currently if you travel east from the GWR mainline west of West Drayton (including Windsor & Eton Central) you are charged off-peak all evening no matter how far you go. The detail of how charges will be set up for the Project Oval expansion is not yet being made clear. This is sadly typical of this governments approach to transparency.
Is anything known about delivery of Phase 1 which I take to be PAYG, Phase 2 is presumably provision of concessions.
Phase 1 was due to go live last December but was pulled at the last minute. It’s now supposed to be this Spring, but no date is yet known. Phase 2 will include more extensions, as well as provision for concessions. As with everything, detail is conspicuous by its absence.
