Hi Barry,

Can you clarify what is wrong?

Digging a little further it seems that fares from the extension to Chiltern served stations only have a morning peak, but to any other stations they have both. Is that wrong? Should it be like GWR so any eastbound fares from the extension only have a morning peak?

It’s all there now.

Hi JG,

It is a bit vague, I agree. In fact it seems to be saying that you need to get a replacement card first and use it once to allow it to be registered. From what you’re saying you’ve ordered the card online which means it should be registered and have the travelcard and any PAYG credit already loaded.

I’d certainly keep records of any costs incurred and if they don’t mention it with the new card then call the helpline and enquire. My experience with replacement kids zip cards is that they’re usually quite quick, and those also include a photo which must add to the processing time.

Out of interest, did you have to pay for a new card online, or does the fact that it was an old damaged card mean that they waived the fee? In fact, did the old card have a deposit on it, and if yes, have the refunded that?

If your flight arrives at 2340 then you probably won’t get a connection to Shepherd’s Bush. The last one leaves Gatwick at 2302. You probably need to get to Victoria and hope you’ll get the last tube at about 0040.

Is it tonight, or a later Tuesday?

Just noticed I never came back to this. If you have a railcard then obviously you’ll get more off-peak journeys in zone 3 before it’s worthwhile getting the bigger travelcard. The thing to note, railcard or not, is that when making extension journeys using PAYG you will still be limited by the same zone 1 centered daily/weekly cap.

It really depends how much time you wish to spend on saving a small amount of money.

Yes, you benefitted from the Mayor’s off-peak Friday experiment which ran every Friday from 8th March to 31st May.

Hi Chris,

You probably won’t be surprised to know that several issues are combining here to make the system so complex.

First of all, retail systems understand a travelcard to originate at a station and end at zones 1-6. Beyond zones 1-6 you get out boundary travelcards which are valid for one return journey from the origin to the zone 6 boundary and unlimited travel within zones 1-6. From the point of view of rail services an out boundary travelcard is finished on exit at the origin station because it’s not valid the other way round (zones – origin – zones). If you want to do the other way round you need a boundary zone to origin return to use with a standard zones 1-6 travelcard. It should also be noted that a travelcard is still valid to use in zones 1-6 until 0430 the next morning, but you’ll need to pay separately (or use a TfL bus) to get back to the zones. So, when searching for fares between two stations, if the origin is outside zones 1-6 and the destination is inside you will get travelcards quoted, but not the other way around.

Next you get the problem of zones 7-9. This is originally a TfL concept which has been kludged onto the National Rail systems in a sub-optimal way. Any day travelcard from a zones 7-9 origin uses a special route code which says (also available at) AAA zones 7-9. This expands the out boundary validity to include unlimited travel in the extra zones. It’s still classed as an out boundary travelcard, hence the suggestion that you’ll only get one return from Amersham. To further complicate things there are out boundary travelcards from Watford Junction, Broxbourne, Rye House, St Margarets (Herts), Ware and Shenfield which also include unlimited travel in zones 1-9. They only allow one return journey to the zone 9 boundary, although some staff may believe that it’s the zone 6 boundary.

Then you get the Kent problem. Swanley is now pretty much standard because the old Swanley to zones 1-6 travelcard has been removed from the system. Initially it was slightly cheaper to get some versions of the out boundary travelcard to zones 1-6 which was obviously fine if you didn’t want any other parts of zones 7-9. It was also a regulated product which prevented it being removed at first.

Dartford has an even bigger issue. You can buy tickets, including travelcards, which are valid via Gravesend and onto HS1. This means that there are two versions of every ticket, one with a route code saying “Plus High Speed” and the other saying “Not valid on HS1”. This means that the “AAA zones 7-9” route code cannot be used. So whilst a travelcard which includes zone 8 is absolutely valid at Dartford, if Dartford is the origin station then it is not valid at any other zones 7-9 stations. I’m fairly confident that the retail staff at Dartford would sell you an appropriate ticket if you ask, but this is definitely an issue which ought to be addressed somehow.

I hope this clarifies things, but do ask a followup if you want.

Hi Alan,

I’m not sure it would make that much difference at the moment, but I’ll keep an open mind in the future.

Yes, peak or off-peak is decided by the time of the first touch in on a journey.
Whitechapel to Liverpool Street can be either Underground or Elizabeth line.

Hi,

Sorry for the delay, I’ve been having a discussion elsewhere about the cheapest tickets and whether you can use them.

You can’t buy a return covering two days for this journey, so it will have to be two singles. There are different considerations on each day, so I’ll cover them seperately.

On Thursday evening the cheapest ticket will be an Evening Out Single from Putney to Bracknell for £6.60. Putney is dual zoned 2/3 so is ideal for this journey. There is, however, one caveat which is that you can’t board a train using that ticket between 1600-1910 from Waterloo, Vauxhall or Clapham Junction. You would be boarding at Clapham Junction, but at that point you would be using your travelcard. I wouldn’t like to second guess how an RPI would react if they checked your ticket at the wrong time. A further complication is that the Bracknell trains don’t stop at Putney. This isn’t a problem when combining a point to point ticket with a travelcard, but the boarding restrictions add an extra element into the mix. There are no boarding restrictions from Putney itself.

My strategy would be to catch an earlier train from Clapham Junction to Richmond which did stop at Putney. Make sure you have a few pounds of PAYG credit on your Oyster card (assuming that’s what holds the travelcard) and if you are checked between Putney and Richmond just present your Oyster card pretending that you’ll exit at Richmond and use the credit. At Richmond you get off and board the Bracknell train and you’ll be fine because there are also no boarding restrictions there. If you somehow have a paper travelcard then belt and braces would be to get off the train at Putney and get back on again, but as long as it stops at Putney you should be fine.

For the Friday there are no Evening Out singles available so it will just be a case of buying a Bracknell to Putney single for £9.60. You can then use any train. You can save 5p if you buy a single from Bracknell to Feltham and then use the PAYG balance on your Oystercard, but you’d have to get off and touch in at Feltham and may have to step back a train. This also assumes you have the gold card discount set on your Oyster card.

I hope this helps, but do reply if anything isn’t clear.

That’s fantastic, Alan.

Yes, please send over the csv file and I’ll take a look. Adding it to the fare finder was one of the things I wanted to do before TfL refused the request.

Hello,

Sorry for the delay. I think the only possibility is if you ask a ticket stop shop whether they can do it. I don’t know for sure, but they might be able to. Ticket machines will only allow multiples of 5p or 10p. Online it’s multiples of £5.

The only other way to get the balance back is to refund the card, but if you needed another one it would now cost the £7 fee. Once refunded the old card is deactivated.