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Just to bring this up to date. At the same time as asking for the number of people using each actual OSI pair, I also asked for data for Manor House to Harringay Green Lanes. It’s being used by 20-40 people a day in both directions with a 4-week total of 874. This would put it 102nd out of 123 OSIs (once duplicate station codes have been agregated). It’s not as big as the other case I’m looking at – more on that in a day or so – but I’d still support it being added.
Cheers Chris,
I don’t know why but I thought you had a railcard. Oops!
I think you’ll need to call the helpdesk and ask them why it was refused. It might be because it wasn’t just a journey on the Elizabeth line, but that shouldn’t make a difference.
You can’t add a 60+ to a standard Oyster for the same reason that you can’t add credit to a 60+ Oyster.
The only trains that are excluded are the Heathrow and Gatwick Expresses and South Eastern High Speed into St Pancras.
Hi Patricia,
The 60+ Oyster card is not a simple thing. It is valid on TfL services from 0900, but non-TfL services from 0930. So someone travelling from Norwood Junction to New Cross Gate at 0900 has to be careful to get an Overground train rather than a Southern one. Outside the zones it’s valid on TfL services* but not non-TfL services, so from Shenfield you can use the Elizabeth line but not Greater Anglia. Obviously these distinctions can’t be decided by the gate pads which is why you can’t add credit to a 60+ Oyster card.
In terms of extension tickets, you can buy those from some stations, or online. You might have to use a named station rather than boundary of zone 6 if buying online. I’m not sure whether you can use e-tickets if you don’t scan them in at the beginning of the journey. The prices will be the standard ticket prices, not the PAYG prices. For Gatwick you can get the PAYG price by getting off at East Croydon and taking the next train once you’ve touched out the 60+ and in with the bank card. If you have a senior railcard then that can be added to an Oyster card and used for East Croydon to Gatwick. St Albans isn’t so easy because there are fewer trains stopping at the boundary station Elstree and Borehamwood. Oyster also isn’t valid at St Albans.
*But not the Elizabeth line between West Drayton and Reading.
Yes, that certainly seems to be the case. What I’m not sure is whether it’s supposed to be the case. If not it could get fixed at any moment.
Hi Joel,
I’m completely with you on this topic. Manor House to Harringay Green Lanes is a signposted walk and I do think it should be an OSI. Making the case for such interchanges is a background task which I am progressing at the moment. You could certainly write to TfL and request that they consider adding it. The more people who do so increases the chance that it might happen. There are certainly plenty of journey opportunities that would benefit from it.
Looking at your other coments, South Hampstead to Swiss Cottage is not quite so clear cut. Both lines head out in a similar North West direction so it’s not clear how many people would benefit. In this case, the stated definition of the dotted line, which is to indicate nearby stations under 10 minutes walking distance, is probably justified. They cleverly don’t describe the dotted line as an interchange, but I agree that the distinction between the two is blurred.
As for Woolwich, there are only two stations, Woolwich (EL) and Woolwich Arsenal. The latter contains both the DLR and SE/TL behind the same gatelines. There is an OSI defined between the two stations. The map certainly doesn’t help putting the DLR so far away from the National Rail lines.
I’m testing it this evening. First port of call this afternoon was Dartford (8) and the gates rejected it with code 57. Will be trying a few other places later, including Waltham Cross (7) which I believe is still a Greater Anglia station.
Well that’s good service. Ordered smartcard online about 10pm on 7th March. Landed on doormat about 10am today (9th March).
Hi Alan,
Comments above are noted.
I understand where you are coming from, but a ticket with a route of AAA Zones 7-9 is definitely valid at any station in those zones, not just the stations one might travel through from the origin.
Giving this validity is very much a kludge in the ticketing system, which is why the vast majority of the conditions only mention zones 1-6. Therefore, the problem is either GA coding the ticket incorrectly or Cubic not recognising the coding correctly.
However, my interest and determination are sufficiently piqued now that I’ve set up a GA account and downloaded the app. I’m about to order a smartcard and intend to test it out myself. Fortunately for me, I have a 60+ Oyster, so if it is refused, i can still travel at no extra cost. I’m determined to get to the bottom of this.
Hi Gaston,
I sympathise, but there are two factors against you here. Fares for late adopting NR lines (like GN) are generally higher than comparable tube and NR lines which use TfL prices. This is a historical issue but there doesn’t seem to be any political will to synchronise fares. Then there is the second issue which is the premium added when you use the late adopting NR lines along with tube or DLR. Again this is historical, although it does only affect fares when the journey involves zone 1.
You are correct that up to Finsbury Park there is no difference because that part of GN has always charged tube fares, largely because you can’t tell which way someone has travelled. There is also the small matter that Finsbury Park is in zone 2 so I would expect the fares to be cheaper than to Harringay in zone 3.
If you want to try and understand how things work then take a look at the Fares Guide page.
Hi Alan,
Do you know what route R40232 says?
When the travelcard is issued on paper it is shown as Amersham to zones 1-6 and the route description is AAA zones 7-9. I’m not aware of anywhere where a ticket says zones 1-9. They are, however, supposed to work throughout zones 1-9.
In terms of your failed travel I would be asking TfL to refund the PAYG charged for Chesham to Harrow on the Hill and ask them whether there was a problem at Chesham that day. You clearly had a valid ticket on your smartcard.
Hi Stuart,
Sorry for the delay responding.
The cheapest day travelcard you can buy is for zones 1-6 off-peak and this costs £5.40 more than the adult zone 1-3 daily cap. A single riverboat fare for the Central and East zones costs £1.20 more using Oyster or contactless than you get if you show a travelcard, so it doesn’t look like it’s worthwhile. Prices are going up in two weeks, but the point will likely still stand.
I’m not sure how much a taxi from Cutty Sark to North Grenwich might cost, but given you’ll likely have capped anyway why not use the DLR to Canary Wharf instead.
Has the 13-year old got a zip card?
Hi Andrew,
Good news that it worked. The journey history viewable on a LU ticket machine is literally what is stored on the card, hence why it was going back to 2020.
Hi Daniel,
You’re pretty much spot on. The off-peak cap only starts being calculated after 0930 so initially you did cap at zones 1-2. If you’d realised that then you could have split at Stratford on the way home and saved £1.45. NR and NR-T do trump TfL-Ang which often creates anomalies, but you’re right, there is no standalone fare for 4-9 on NR because there are no NR stations in zone 9.
I’m sympathetic about the lack of progress towards back office calculations when discounted Oyster cards are involved. I don’t know why it’s taking so long, I can only assume that it’s not seen as a priority. The ability to link railcards to either contactless cards or a dumb Oyster style card is part of the second phase of the current rollout of PAYG to areas of the Southeast. It’s not likely to happen before 2024 at the earliest though.
Hi Andrew,
It shouldn’t do. Check it on a ticket machine first so you can ask staff if there is a problem.
Hi Saj,
That’s a bit of a difficult one. Can you give me more info (date and time) and I’ll try and find out what was happening then. I’m disappointed that they appear to be changing their story. Strikes must be putting a toll on the amount of calls, but that’s no excuse for giving misleading information.
If there was a strike then you’d be expected to know what was running and plan accordingly, therefore they would not give refunds in that situation. However, if there was a temporary reason why the Overground wasn’t running then I would hope that they’d offer a refund down to the fare for the journey you actually made as a gesture of goodwill.
I can’t say which way they’ll go, but if I can find out the reason then I suggest you write an email asking them to reconsider.
Hi Stu,
I can explain what you’ve been charged.
Your £15.90 fare is made up of the zone 1-9 off-peak cap (£14.10) plus the £1.80 single fare from Brentwood to Shenfield. There is a £7.30 surcharge placed on peak journeys to/from Heathrow on the Elizabeth line, but the fare is included in caps. Shenfield benefits from the off-peak (after 0930) cap to zone 9 (Brentwood) being relatively cheap and a quite low fare between the last two stations.
The good news is that your wife’s card will be due a refund next time she uses it because her touches will have been run through the back office system and the charge recalculated. If she uses the card within the week after the refund has been queued then it will be added to her balance immediately. After that it will be added on the second touch.
Yes, there is a grace period at each end of the peak times where off-peak fares will be charged. The details are on the FAQ page. It’s 5 minutes at the beginning and 3 minutes at the end currently.
Hi George,
Paddington is complicated when it comes to interchange time, and I think I may need to make things clearer on my OSI list. Sadly you have not been overcharged because LU to EL is 20 minutes either way. The reason for this is that the EL station is like the LU station where you wait for your train within the gateline. In contrast you wait on the concourse of the NR station until your train is announced, and then go through the gates onto the correct platform.
Strangely, the additional OSIs between Lancaster Gate and Paddington EL/NR both allow 40 minutes in the Paddington direction and 20 minutes in reverse. Using the same logic as at Paddingotn the EL time ought to be 20 minutes in both directions.
Agreed it looks wacky, but it was probably more reasonable before the Overground went to Clapham Junction.
Hi David,
OK, change to the previous answer, to avoid any of this hassle you should have used your freedom pass to get into platform 12-14. There is no penalty for not touching out again and you could have used your contactless card to touch out as normal.
Also, the £26 charge is because you used the low numbered platforms where the usual next stop is Reading. Good luck getting TfL/GWR to sort things out. Please let us know how you get on.
