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No worries Mike – my post was purely putting the information in this thread, rather than a request that someone does something about it!
I can imagine phase 1b would be annoying to have to deal with (at least it has been publicised in good time and more widely than phase 1a which was just snuck in)
Phase 2a was announced today. Due to happen ‘next year’. Here’s the stations listed by line heading clockwise from 9 o’clock.
- Saunderton, Princes Risborough, Monks Risborough, Little Kimble, Aylesbury
- Great Missenden, Wendover, Stoke Mandeville, Aylesbury, Aylesbury Vale Parkway
- Luton, Leagrave, Harlington
- Welwyn North, Knebworth
- Watton-at-Stone
- Roydon, Harlow Mill, Harlow Town, Sawbridgeworth, Bishop’s Stortford, Stansted Mountfitchet, Stansted Airport
- Ingatestone, Chelmsford, Hatfield Peverel, Witham
- Billericay, Wickford, Rayleigh, Hockley, Rochford, Southend Airport, Prittlewell, Southend Victoria
- Woldingham, Hurst Green, Oxted, Lingfield, Dormans, East Grinstead
- Reigate
- Ashtead, Leatherhead, Box Hill & Westhumble, Dorking (Main)
There seems to be the following off-peak single fares to/through Zone 1 from Reading. This list is not complete, and it there is no doubt further weirdness!
Reading – Paddington: £12.60
Reading – TfL-LU scale stations in zones 2-6 via Zone 1: £15.40
Reading – Elizabeth line (not Stratford) and NR-scale stations in zones 2-6 via Zone 1: £15.60
Reading – Zone 1 stations: £15.70Peak is a bit more complicated, but seems to be in the right order that going to zone 1 is cheaper than going through zone 1 – unlike off-peak!
Bond Street has an OSI to Oxford Circus. That route is going to be the fastest, provided that you know what you are doing when going between stations near Oxford Street.
Via Highbury & Islington is about 1km longer than the route via Oxford Circus and isn’t as fast on top of that*. It therefore takes a little longer via H&I. You have two 15 minute train journey going via Highbury & Islington. Via Oxford Street it’s 20 minutes on the Central line and 7 on the Victoria line. There’s obvious the times to get to/between/from trains that I’ve not included, plus wait times will be higher on the Overground vs the Central line.
*30 minutes to do 16.2km (ave speed 32.4km/h), vs 27 minutes to do 15.3km (ave speed 34km/h)
PS: via Tottenham Hale is 10 minutes + 24 minutes. 34 minutes to do 22.4km (ave speed 39.5km/h) – it’s the fastest average speed, but, by far, the longest route, and so it takes the most time. It also has the least frequent leg (4tph heading north out of Stratford). But it’s not a silly route – it avoids changing at the busy and cramped stations that are H&I / Oxford Circus and it doesn’t take that much more time.
I’d have thought that the tapping out of London Bridge LU and tapping in at London Bridge NR would tell the fare system that you didn’t go via New Cross/Gate – just as tapping the pink reader at Canada Water would.
Oh, I misread that first part.
However there is an hourly train (vs every 15 minutes Overground) run by Southern that serves Clapham Junction and Shepherds Bush as part of its broader Watford – Croydon route.
Gatwick-Clapham Junction is run by the Southern brand of the GTR uber-franchise.
The line between Moorgate and Highbury & Islington is surely charged at the TfL-LU fare (same as Forest Hill – Highbury & Islington) and thus doesn’t invoke the NR-only fare? ie if you touch the pink reader at H&I it would be the same as Canada Water or Whitechapel (and presumably if you use the OSI at Shadwell?).
The NR-only fare seems like change at London Bridge onto Thameslink, change at Farringdon and arrive at Moorgate (with Farringdon – Moorgate possibly still having a residual NR route for fares even though the line closed) and leave via Liverpool Street gatelines.
“Someone should also complain about these daft OSIs.”
It’s not daft, it’s the Victoria-Elizabeth interchange – on the street because the cramped and over-crowded Oxford Circus couldn’t handle a behind-the-gateline interchange (which would have a lot more footfall than the unpublicised current one). Perhaps it would be better if it would just be to the Hanover Square entrance of Bond Street, but that would create other issues (what if that entrance is closed, confusion that it doesn’t work for the other entrance, etc) – and other than intra-station interchanges, there’s no OSIs specific to certain gatelines.
National Rail Enquiries routes Slough – Richmond via Windsor so there is definitely a walking interchange there.
Slough – Windsor anytime single is £3.40. Windsor – Richmond anytime single is £9.00*. £11.00 for a Slough-Richmond anytime single is cheaper than individual singles.
However TfL offers a route that takes slightly longer via Turnham Green that is £4.00, so I doubt people would use the Windsor interchange for this particular journey! Slough – Staines though…
*I’m doing 14th of December for these prices – this ticket today is £9.30, so Oval has lowered fares.
One question that there is no information about is OSIs. Several towns in the Project Oval scope are (were?) treated with interchange maps on the NR website showing walking routes both stations. Hertford is one of these towns, but doesn’t have an OSI despite both stations being PAYG – probably the stations are rather far apart and deemed too far for an OSI (plus the route up to Stevenage not being included makes it less useful as an interchange). St Albans is likely in a similar boat – too far apart to bother with.
Windsor, and in phase 2, Dorking, however, have the stations fairly close and are very much ‘potential OSIs’ – but there’s no news as to whether they will be. While Dorking is a little way off, Windsor is just 11 days away.
Edenbridge Town and Farnborough stations were late additions to the phase 2 scope, added due to nearby stations being inside the scope – so perhaps they have done some thinking about this. And it’s not due to station groups – else Reading West would be added as it’s the same group as Reading (then again, perhaps that’s a separate scheme as the station is being overhauled and upgraded).
Isn’t the aim of theses non-interchanges being shown like that on the map as “here’s an alternative station for those locations”? In which case, why not show stuff like Bayswater/Queensway or Regent’s Park/Great Portland Street where Londoners know that the stations are really close, but other people don’t?
It doesn’t help that the vast majority of station-station links (and still a majority even if you include links to modes that don’t have the same pricing structure: Trams, Cable Car, HS1, and the River) are valid OSIs with only a few exceptions that aren’t.
Using the walking links to link two stations with the same name at places like Hammersmith, Elephant & Castle, and Canary Wharf also reinforces the mostly-correct, but not correct, idea that these are OSIs being shown.
By my reckoning, there are four ‘false friends’:
Harringay Green Lanes – Manor House
Caledonian Road – Caledonian Road & Barnsbury
City Thameslink – St Pauls
Swiss Cottage – South HampsteadYesterday lunchtime the Met line trains were all leaving from platform 2, where they normally arrive on the other side of the bridge from the entrance (albeit at xx22 and xx52 past rather than the advertised special timetable of xx00 and xx30). You might not be able to cut it as fine as 28 past to tap in get on the half past train.
Caledonian Road – Caledonian Road & Barnsbury is another such non-OSI confusing marked with a line between them on the map.
I presume the Bank-Liverpool Street OSI is due to historic Network South East fares having a Waterloo-Liverpool Street routing that avoided the tube by walking from the BR station at Bank to Liverpool Street. The Marylebone NR-Paddington NR OSI seems to exist for similar reasons.
Because Monument is the opposite end of the station from the Waterloo & City line, presumably that is why Monument-Liverpool Street is not done. However, one should note that the similar Bank-Fenchurch Street OSI works at Monument despite the Circle and District providing journeys to the much-closer Tower Hill where the change to c2c can be made (and much more frequently than to Liverpool St).
